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Thread: Asada, Kim begin road to second Olympic showdown

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1DF...ature=youtu.be

    the step sequence is to die for. This is the gold standard for PCS, a real, captivating program with some newness to it. Most girls would die to have this kind of program and to be able to perform this kind of program.
    Thank You!
    This is amazing.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by guanchi View Post
    I disagree, esp. when it comes to spins. Caro's spins are nice, but absolutely nothing special. Yuna's inverted camel (not everyone's cup of tea I know) is harder and more interesting than any spin that Caro does. Her spin speed is not that great, her layback is nothing close to true layback (yuna's leg position is not the greatest but at least she can bend her spine so the head is at the level of her lower back- it's layed back in a true sense), but Caro only does a neck back, at most. Overscored, when it comes to spins.
    I agree. Yu Na's spins are actually excellent and very strong, probably the strongest of the top women (Nagasu and Czisny arent top women so not counting them obviously). Kostner does not have great spins at all, never did. Yu Na's layback position isnt exactly stunning but it is sufficent, and that is her only spinning weakness (and the layback still has great speed so scores high) while Kostner's layback is also her worst spin and is just terrible. Yu Na's jumps are also much stronger, Kostner also has quite big jumps but she stalks them and takes forever to set them up, and the control isnt nearly the same. Footwork and spirals are roughly equal.

    Then on PCS I would say Kostner's only edge is skating skills, but Yu Na is excellent in that as well, and as strong as anyone but Kostner.

    Kostner fans needs to calm down. Kostner in 2005 skated a clean short at Worlds with a triple-triple and lost in the SP to an aging past her prime and non COP skater Kwan with only a triple-double, Slutskaya with a triple double and TWO major mistakes, and Cohen with a triple-double and two minor mistakes. Now imagine that ever happening to Kim instead, LOL! Kostner is a very good skater, but will never be on the level that Kim and Asada were at their very best. I could concur now one could atleast entertain the idea of competing when them now, although I would still favor both to beat them even at this years Worlds and this years Olympics as it is, but the only reason one could even consider Kostner in the fight with them at all right now is only since they arent at their 2007-2010 levels, otherwise there would be no such thoughts.

  3. #108
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    ANY top skater who skates PERFECT with 7 triples can beat Yuna.
    That is like saying any top skater who skated perfect with 7 triples under 6.0 could beat Michelle Kwan. Sorry it doesnt work that easy.

  4. #109
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    I don't know which competition and skaters os168 wanted to take an example for her opinion, but as a Yuna fan, I was very confused and upset when I saw her PCS at 06 SC and 08 Worlds.

    Yuna was clearly a 'newbie' with no federation support and reputation at 06 SC. She had a clean performance there, I still think her Roxanne program is one of the most complicated and difficult SP from her - all the elements are well balanced, difficult transitions, beautiful choreography and step sequence.
    However, she got only 24.84 (TES was 37.84) - skating skills 6.45 / transition 5.9 / performance 6.3 / choreography 6.25 / interpretation 6.15
    Fumie Suguri and Alissa Czisny's SP were more simple and easier than Yuna's - nothing special between elements , and they were far from their bests that day. (watch on youtube)
    Nevertheless, Fumie got 27.68 (TES was 30.84) - skating skills 7.1 / transition 6.75 / performance 6.85 / choreography 7.05 / interpretation 6.85
    Alissa's PCS was 27.52 (TES was 29.6) - skating skills 7.0 / transition 6.6 / performance 7.0 / choreography 6.95 / interpretation 6.85
    Do you think Yuna's transitions, choreography, performance, interpretation were worse than Alissa and Fumie that day, esp. transitions?
    Yuna had the highest TES, but her PCS was 5th - lower than Joannie and Poykio.

    Another case is 2008 Worlds.
    Yuna popped 3Lz, but otherwise it was great and beautiful . She had the highest TES (64.82), but her PCS was 58.56, lower than Mao.
    skating skills 7.57 / transition 7.0 / performance 7.46 / choreography 7.25 / interpretation 7.32
    Mao awfully fell when she attempted 3A, did NOTHING for 30 sec. She recovered and executed other elements well, but her performance was a bid robotic, there were no special transitions and choreography in her program.
    Her TES was 61.89 (lower than Yuna), and PCS was 60.57 (higher than Yuna)
    skating skills 7.75 / transition 7.29 / performance 7.61 / choreography 7.57 / interpretation 7.64
    Do you think Mao had better transitions, performance, choreography, interpretation than Yuna that night? I don't know what you and other posters think, but to me (and most of Yuna fans), it was unacceptable. Had Yuna been marked correctly, the results might have been different, JMHO.

    I think judges try their bests to be fair, but sometimes they are not always mark what the skaters did ON THE DAY but base more on impressions and reputations, as os168 said.
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 12-22-2012 at 01:27 AM. Reason: taking out a reference to a now unapproved post - just took out what was quoted. :)

  5. #110
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    Yu Na or Nakano should have won the 2008 Worlds. I guess by the rules it should have been Yu Na, but I really thought Nakano had the most inspired performance, damn those stupid UR rules.
    Even with the UR rules though Nakano clearly and undisputably deserved atleast the bronze over Kostner. Kostners silver at the 2008 Worlds for the long program performance she put out (I think only 2 of her 7 jumping passes were clean) was the most controversial result of the last 6 years in ladies skating, and make a mockery of the sport. It was clear the judges were looking to push a European lady back in the mix with Worlds being in Europe, after the Asian swep at the 2007 Worlds. Yu Na arguably deserved to win the 2011 Worlds too, not that she was underscored, her performances were far from her best, but Miki Ando was overscored. So Yu Na deserved 2 or 3 World titles and only won 1, so much for the idea from some of her haters of her being a judges pet, lol!

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1DF...ature=youtu.be

    the step sequence is to die for. This is the gold standard for PCS, a real, captivating program with some newness to it. Most girls would die to have this kind of program and to be able to perform this kind of program.
    This is, hands down, the best SP of the season and some of the best SP from the ladies ever skated IMO. She is breathtaking

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    She got straight 3's for it.

    I think what makes this program so perfect is that she hits every note of the music -- and it's not an easy tune to skate to!
    I've rewatched it at least 5 times so far. It's probably the best step sequence I have seen in a long time. It's a CoP version of the SlSt Yagudin did in the short program in 2002 Olympics. She hits every note. Her limbs appear longer than normal. It's magnificent.

    Step sequence, when it's done well, elevates the program.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Footwork and spirals are roughly equal.

    Then on PCS I would say Kostner's only edge is skating skills, but Yu Na is excellent in that as well, and as strong as anyone but Kostner.
    Kostner's known for footwork. When level 4 was harder to come by, Kostner got them from time to time. Kostner's spirals are superior because of the edge, speed and the position. If you really think Kim and Kostner are roughly the same in footwork and spiral, then there's not much to discuss.

    Kostner's PCS in general should be higher. Her TR should be lower than Kim, always. When she's not clean, her P/E should also be lower. But I don't see Kim having better program or interpret music better.

  9. #114
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    Oops, OP was deleted, I didn't intend to bring controversial topics here, I was just responding to OP which was deleted. Don't get me wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Yu Na or Nakano should have won the 2008 Worlds. I guess by the rules it should have been Yu Na, but I really thought Nakano had the most inspired performance, damn those stupid UR rules.
    Even with the UR rules though Nakano clearly and undisputably deserved atleast the bronze over Kostner. Kostners silver at the 2008 Worlds for the long program performance she put out (I think only 2 of her 7 jumping passes were clean) was the most controversial result of the last 6 years in ladies skating, and make a mockery of the sport. It was clear the judges were looking to push a European lady back in the mix with Worlds being in Europe, after the Asian swep at the 2007 Worlds. Yu Na arguably deserved to win the 2011 Worlds too, not that she was underscored, her performances were far from her best, but Miki Ando was overscored. So Yu Na deserved 2 or 3 World titles and only won 1, so much for the idea from some of her haters of her being a judges pet, lol!
    Most of Carolina's jumps were shaky, and no flow out of the jumps. 3Lz - hands down / 3F - step out / 2A-3T - hands down / 3S-2T shaky . Her spins were sloppy, she wobbled on spiral sequence. Anyway, she's got the 3rd TES (0.01 point behind Mao), 4th PCS (0.04 behind Yuna).
    I agree that Yukari was brilliant but underscored that night. Her PCS was not bad though (She got 59.32, Mao was first, she was 2nd) She was punished hardly because of her tiny, underrotated, ugly leg wrapping jumps.
    I still can't conclude who should have won gold/silver/bronze that night.
    Mao - great SP / awfully fell on 3A, did nothing for 30 sec, but overmarked on PCS (she was the first) compared to her competitors - 185.56
    Caro - great SP / sloppy and lots of mistakes in the FS - 184.68
    Yuna - fell on 3Lz, 5th in the SP / Great FS except one popped 3Lz. 1st on TES, but 3rd on PCS (underscored compared to others) - 183.23
    Nakano - She was the only one who did two wonderful clean programs, but most of her jumps were tiny and ugly, lots of UR - 177.40

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Kostner's known for footwork. When level 4 was harder to come by, Kostner got them from time to time. Kostner's spirals are superior because of the edge, speed and the position. If you really think Kim and Kostner are roughly the same in footwork and spiral, then there's not much to discuss.

    Kostner's PCS in general should be higher. Her TR should be lower than Kim, always. When she's not clean, her P/E should also be lower. But I don't see Kim having better program or interpret music better.
    Caro has the best footwork in the ladies, IMO. I like Caro and Yuna's spirals - not that flexible or pretty, but amazing speed across the ice, and deep edge. Caro's spirals are great, but she often wobbles when she changes the edge or position.
    PE, CH, IN are very subjective, it's very hard to tell who is better. ( Yuna is my favorite, she looks better than Caro to me )
    SS - Caro is slightly better / TR - Yuna is better

  11. #116
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    She recovered and executed other elements well, but her performance was a bid robotic, there were no special transitions and choreography in her program.



    really? Mao was phenomenal, she just became the music, I remember being totally spellbound and in tears after I saw her skate! the way she fought back after the hard fall and how she went straight into 3-3, and the way she delievered every single element after that fall, left my mouth wide open, her performance was unforgettable, just watch the reaction of the audience it pretty much said it all!

    on the other hand I don't even remember Kims performance that year!

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post


    really? Mao was phenomenal, she just became the music, I remember being totally spellbound and in tears after I saw her skate! the way she fought back after the hard fall and how she went straight into 3-3, and the way she delievered every single element after that fall, left my mouth wide open, her performance was unforgettable, just watch the reaction of the audience it pretty much said it all!

    on the other hand I don't even remember Kims performance that year!
    really? Yuna was phenomenal, she just became the music, I remember being totally spellbound and in tears after I saw her skate! Her performance was unforgettable, just watch the reaction of the audience it pretty much said it all!

    Sonia Bianchetti's Review of the 2008 World Figure Skating Championships
    Yu-Na Kim won the free skating with a splendid performance. She opened with a gorgeous triple flip/ triple toe- loop combination and landed a total of five triples, ending the program with a double Axel and a beautiful change foot combination spin. Her program was nearly clean. She only had a couple of minor errors: a poorly controlled landing on a triple Salchow and a singled planned triple Lutz. Her technique is pure and she moves beautifully on the ice. She is a joy to watch. In my opinion she was by far the best skater that night. Still, her marks in the components did not reflect this. Her total score was 58.56, just 0.4 ahead of Kostner and almost 1.03 less than Asada. Had she been marked correctly, although she was only fifth in the short program, she might have won the World title.

  13. #118
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    I love how ONE FAN'S emotional reaction to a skater should be the determining factor in scoring and the color of the medal.

    If you're going to INSIST that your favorite skater is the best, then at least use something a bit more factual than "I almost cried" because there were plenty of people who didn't.

    I almost cried over Alyssa's performance at the worlds, but that doesn't mean she deserved to win the WC title.
    Last edited by Nadia01; 12-22-2012 at 07:02 AM.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    I love how ONE FAN'S emotional reaction to a skater should be the determining factor in scoring and the color of the medal.

    If you're going to INSIST that your favorite skater is the best, then at least use something a bit more factual than "I almost cried" because there were plenty of people who didn't.

    I almost cried over Alyssa's performance at the worlds, but that doesn't mean she deserved to win the WC title.
    Firstly i never stated "i almost cried" I was in tears there is a big difference, so don't change peoples words to your liking, secondly it wasn't my intention to give a factual response, what I gave was a personal review of the event, whether you like it or not is your problem, and as far as i know a persons review isn't a determining factor in a event, that's why we have judges!
    Last edited by mary01; 12-22-2012 at 07:51 AM.

  15. #120
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    I hate the Mao vs Kim rivarly. I as a big Mao fan, I will always admit that Kim Yuna is a very gifted skater. However, I dont undarstand how some people can down play Mao's acomplishements as if she is a lesser Skater. She is one of the top women of figure skating. One of the few internationally known skaters now. Olympic medalist. I find it lazy for commentators and sports writers to perpetuate this rivarly. Kim is kim and very amazing. And Mao is mao and also very amazing.

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