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Thread: 2013 Russian Nationals Ladies

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    That’s what most other federations are doing. The JSF is sending Mura to 4CC and the Worlds instead of sending more famous Kozuka or Oda because Mura skated more well at the Japanese Nationals. The USFSA and SC will also send their top 2/top 3 finishers to the Worlds. I was rather shocked and disappointed that the RU is not doing the same thing. Poor Menshov, he deserves to be sent to Euros at least.
    Not sure what I see more here, either the lack of information or the lame attempt to take a superior position on "Bloody Russia". USFSA forgot the sport priciple when they sent Kwan over the US bronze medalist to Torino. Luckily for the USFSA Kwan withdrew and they escaped the lawsuit from Hughes family. The example with JSF is plain wrong. JSF normally didn't send all medalists to 4CC. That was an applied custom that was excepted this time too. But going the other way JSF actually broke their own rule and made it flexible the way they wanted for this particular event.
    Because Menshov’s coach is a nobody while Kovtun’s coach is Tarasova? She’s the queen of politicking you know.
    He-he. Suddenly conspiracy theory&politics argument became convenient . Well, of course TAT is an authority. So is Mishin. And if RusFed had chosen Gachi, they same people would have been writing exactly the same stuff they write about TAT now. Yawn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    I think it makes sense to send Kovtun. They know that he hasn't attempted a quad sal before and that by Euros, he'll have a better chance at mastering all the new technology.
    Also it's better that Kovtun get some experience now before next season.
    In the interview Piseev said that their choice of Kovtun over Menshov based on this season's results: unconsistent in Menshov's case and good results in Junior GP in Kovtun's case. The Cup of Russia Final will take place in February where Menshov, Gachi and Leonova will skate. Then RusFed will make the decision who will go to Worlds based on CoR Final results and Euros.
    They actually don't sound that certain. I think if this year were not a pre-Olympic year, or if Russia had 2-3 spots at Worlds instead of one, then I am sure they wouldn't gamble. They would send Menshov piecefully and Kovtun would be skating at Junior Worlds. Now the are gambling. Will see.
    http://fcp-press.ru/interview/p2_articleid/6122

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    In the interview Piseev said that their choice of Kovtun over Menshov based on this season's results: unconsistent in Menshov's case and good results in Junior GP in Kovtun's case. The Cup of Russia Final will take place in February where Menshov, Gachi and Leonova will skate. Then RusFed will make the decision who will go to Worlds based on CoR Final results and Euros.
    Did Gachinski and Leonova skated at the CoR competitions? Or will they be allowed to compete because they have been in the GP?
    And, how did the judges dare to give to Leonova's horrible program higher PCS (almost 3 points!!) than Makarova's easier but almost clean program which was a lot better (in my opinion), talking about SS, choreography and interpretation?!

  3. #333
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Did Gachinski and Leonova skated at the CoR competitions? Or will they be allowed to compete because they have been in the GP?
    And, how did the judges dare to give to Leonova's horrible program higher PCS (almost 3 points!!) than Makarova's easier but almost clean program which was a lot better (in my opinion), talking about SS, choreography and interpretation?!
    Well Morozov probably had a kid with two or three of the judges and is using that as leverage for Leonova's scores.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    USFSA forgot the sport priciple when they sent Kwan over the US bronze medalist to Torino. Luckily for the USFSA Kwan withdrew and they escaped the lawsuit from Hughes family.
    No lawsuit. In Kwan's case both precedent and contractual language was followed. (A "dominant athlete" who missed Nationals due to injury, etc.) Interestingly, Michelle probably would have gotten to skate at the 1994 Olympics except for a threatened lawsuit by Tonya Harding.

    Plus, the USFSA owed Michelle for bailing them out at 2002 Skate America and other favors. Plus the television networks wanted a Michelle story line. After Michelle withdrew, Sasha Cohen was a guest on Good Morning America and she got mad because all the interviewer wanted to talk about was Michelle's withdrawal instead of Sasha's prospects.

    Plus, advertisers like Cola Cola had laid out a bundle for Michelle.

    Plus...she was Michelle Kwan.
    Last edited by Mathman; 12-28-2012 at 01:20 PM.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Well Morozov probably had a kid with two or three of the judges and is using that as leverage for Leonova's scores.

  6. #336
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    Regarding Menshov -- perhaps they are thinking back to 2011, when he won Russian Nationals. He won Russian Nationals after finishing a dismal 10th at Cup of Russia. Then after winning nationals, he finished a dismal 14th in the SP at 2011 Euros and ended up finishing behind Gachinski, which we know went on to win bronze at Worlds (though to be fair, he did finish 4th in the FS).

    But i don't see what is so inconsistent about his results this season: He finished 4th behind the Japanese sweep and beat Jeremy Abbott in Skate America, then had a respectable SP at COR; his FS wasn't as good, but he still ended up 4th again against a tough crowd. He has first and silver in his senior Bs. He hasn't had perfect performances, but he's managed to do well enough for respectable finishes.

    I like Kovtun, but he still need a lot of work beyond the jumps. His choreography was a bit ehhh.

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Well Morozov probably had a kid with two or three of the judges and is using that as leverage for Leonova's scores.
    Are you sure that mightn't have the opposite effect? "Hell hath no fury... ", you know?

  8. #338
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    As I recall Michelle was paid quite handsomely for bailing the usfsa out of 2002 Skate America. I don't think there was anything due her with repeat to that.

  9. #339
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for Menshov, and although federation said the first two are a lock but the third is not at the beginning of the Championships, I feel Voronov is no more reliable than Menshov- if not less, I have seen his maximum performance ability and really he may have a sort of secured quad but he is not bringing down the arena for sure. Menshov is more charismatic and if skated clean he would have placed higher than Voronov and I feel sorry also for Kovtun that they got him in that situation, this is not a controversy you want for your first Euros.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    As I recall Michelle was paid quite handsomely for bailing the usfsa out of 2002 Skate America. I don't think there was anything due her with repeat to that.
    Yeah, I think you're right about that. I think it was more the universal unwritten rule of Olympic team selection: If you have a five-time World Champion, send her.

  11. #341
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    Vorono is definitely not reliable! Certainly he is one reason Russia has only one spot in London because even though he didn't do that bad in nice couldn't get even get in the top 10 and is can be all over the place with jumps. But because he is in the top 2 and that's the marker? menshov can't even go to euros? Should be he does go to euros and if anyone flopped there they get replaced. Just like Borodulin replacing voronov in 2010. I hope Kovtun does well but the whole thing is just troublesome outside of plushenko. Like I really don't think gachinski can be relied on but he beat kovtun and menshov bea them both. As long as its not really set in stone.
    Last edited by gmyers; 12-28-2012 at 09:42 PM.

  12. #342
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    With the Olympics being in their territory I can understand why they want to invest on Kovtun. He has had a great season and should he skate clean like at the JGP finals he will scored well with the judges where as Menshov will not. Yes, he has had a good season but, his best will not get the big points..

  13. #343
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    Menshov should have beat brezina for a gp medal but couldnt afford the mistake he made but brezina could afford mistakes . But he Russia fed is certainly hoping for a lot that kovtun can go to euros and be scored well if he performs well. Then he would establish himself for worlds? Worlds now looks voronov vs kovtun but kovtun has to establish a great reputation only a euros? And he has to skate a worlds well to?

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    As I recall Michelle was paid quite handsomely for bailing the usfsa out of 2002 Skate America. I don't think there was anything due her with repeat to that.
    I remember people have always talked about 2002 SA in terms of MK, but what happened? Did the big American names withdraw or something?

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterB View Post
    With the Olympics being in their territory I can understand why they want to invest on Kovtun. He has had a great season and should he skate clean like at the JGP finals he will scored well with the judges where as Menshov will not. Yes, he has had a good season but, his best will not get the big points..
    Kovtun has had a great season IN JUNIORS, where he really had only Josh Farris as competition. But when he went to World Team Trophy 2012, he finished last of 12. At Russian Nationals, he couldn't handle that competition either. He fell on the 3z in the SP and didn't complete a combo, but was held up with huge PCS scores to finish 3rd. In the FS, he bailed on both the opening intended 4t and again on the 4s. He went on to land just one combination, yet he got 8s for PCS scores.

    Kovtun would never get such high PCS scores in international competition because his choreo is meh and he is not a great interpreter of music, either. He skates juniorish because he IS a junior. If he couldn't handle the competition at Nationals, I don't see how he can do so at Euros.

    The fine hand of Tatiana Tarasova is behind Kovtun's elevation over skaters who placed higher.

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