Plushenko wins tenth title at Russian Nationals | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Plushenko wins tenth title at Russian Nationals

jenaj

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Aug 17, 2003
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United-States
I really admire Plushy for continuing on and am in awe of his quads so soon after surgery (and at age 30). But men's skating has gotten much better since 2010. No one could win without a quad now like Evan did. In fact, it will be difficult for anyone to win without three quads (total). And, against all odds given the scoring system, artistry has come to the forefront in the men's event. Both Dai and Patrick have really upped the ante on artistry. Plushenko skates with a ton of confidence and charisma, but his artistry consists of a lot of (in my view) extraneous arm movements. I can see Plush making the podium if he skates clean in Sochi. It is Russia, after all. But I don't see him getting the gold or even the silver.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
How much chance you gave him before Vancouver or Sheffield?:p If I right remember he beat Chan and Dai, too in Vancouver.... :biggrin:

This is the protocol of Sheffield

http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2012/ec2012_protocol.pdf

Perhaps you suffer from short term memory loss but Plushenko was actually the favorite going into Vancouver. That was at the all time low point in the history of mens skating where Evan Lysacek was crowned as World and Olympic Champion however, so even an aging and well past his prime Plushenko was extremely competitive at that point, fast forward 3 years and it might as well be a different planet of skating. None of the Worlds top men right now are from Europe except maybe Fernandez, although he wasnt one of the top last year. As for your last point Lysacek beat Chan and Dai in Vancouver, could he beat them now as well. :laugh:
 

seniorita

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Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Plushenko was the favorite in a weak field in Vancouver but he was less prepared than now. The Plushenko of Euros 2012 would have won Evan of 2010, even Plushenko of Euros 2010 would have beat him but he skated worse than that. And I think there was a hype for Evan, Abott, Lambiel, Chan and Daisuke too for Vancouver.
Nevertheless this season is a new turn and I dont think he can beat Hanyu and Dai and Chan when total clean neither Fernandez, but having the 4th total score means that it is not that easy to have two clean programs, for people above him Chan's best is from worlds 2011, Dai's from Team trophy and Hanyu's from gpf, Hanyu and Fernandez 's Lp have scored at Gpf a little above his European free score. Fernandez 's best sp score is 86 sth. And Euros are in less than a month so we can see.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
Plushenko was the favorite in a weak field in Vancouver but he was less prepared than now. The Plushenko of Euros 2012 would have won Evan of 2010

I agree, and he should have taken his opportunity there. That was his opportunity to win a 2nd Olympic Gold, which is clearly slammed shut forever now. If he wins the bronze in Sochi (which is highly unlikely but not enitrely impossible) it would be a huge victory for him at this stage, and require a phenomenal effort by him and some crashy performances by atleast 2 of the major favorites.

BTW the guys you mentioned dont have to skate cleanly to beat Plushenko. At the GP final nobody was skating cleanly, people were slipping and falling all over the place like you suggest with their content they might well do, and the top 3 LPs still all outscored not only Plushenkos Europeans LP score, but his own Nationals LP score which was clearly inflated (all Nationals scores are inflated, and Voronovs scores leaves no doubt) with a clean skate.
 
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seniorita

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Jun 3, 2008
I dont think Plush had a clean skate at Nationals, an iffy quad, no 3-3 combo,UR or downgraded -I m not sure- on 3z-2t, low levels on spins, and his score was even less than Euros, with inflated pcs yes. And I dont remember Dai, Hanyu and Fernandez falling all over the place in GPF, Daisuke fell on the first quad, who else? Nationals aside, it was supposed to be of their best performances. Chan's score was lower anyway.
 

jenaj

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Aug 17, 2003
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United-States
If he wins the bronze in Sochi (which is highly unlikely but not enitrely impossible) it would be a huge victory for him at this stage, and require a phenomenal effort by him and some crashy performances by atleast 2 of the major favorites.

I don't disagree that bronze is probably the best Plushy could do at Sochi, but does he agree? I don't think he will come back at all if he doesn't think he can win the gold medal He already has the gold, more medals are meaningless for him unless he wins another gold. I personally think Plushy will retire after Europeans--but we shall see.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I really admire Plushy for continuing on and am in awe of his quads so soon after surgery (and at age 30). But men's skating has gotten much better since 2010. No one could win without a quad now like Evan did. In fact, it will be difficult for anyone to win without three quads (total). And, against all odds given the scoring system, artistry has come to the forefront in the men's event. Both Dai and Patrick have really upped the ante on artistry. Plushenko skates with a ton of confidence and charisma, but his artistry consists of a lot of (in my view) extraneous arm movements. I can see Plush making the podium if he skates clean in Sochi. It is Russia, after all. But I don't see him getting the gold or even the silver.

Do you know at the age of 16 Plush was the youngest skater to ever receive a perfect score of 6.0? He received a total of 75 6.0s before the new judging system was introduced, most of them are the artistry points. He got more 6.0 like Michelle Kwan. :p Kwan has 57 Plushy has cca 70 :biggrin:

Perhaps you suffer from short term memory loss but Plushenko was actually the favorite going into Vancouver. That was at the all time low point in the history of mens skating where Evan Lysacek was crowned as World and Olympic Champion however, so even an aging and well past his prime Plushenko was extremely competitive at that point, fast forward 3 years and it might as well be a different planet of skating. None of the Worlds top men right now are from Europe except maybe Fernandez, although he wasnt one of the top last year. As for your last point Lysacek beat Chan and Dai in Vancouver, could he beat them now as well. :laugh:

I remember I read many opinions before Vancouver Plushy is too old, he can't do it, he hasn't skating skills.. etc., I hardly believe you don't remember...


Plushenko said he will be happy if he will stand on podium, if he will win a bronze medal :thumbsup:
 
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Icey

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Nov 28, 2012
I will be surprised if his body holds up till Sochi. While not unexpected, his quad at Nationals did not have the height of the past, which makes me wonder if he can pull off a good second one in the long program.
If national inflation takes place, and it seems that it does, it does so in service to what? The fans don't even buy into it and certainly the judges that will be at Worlds and the Olympics and Euros don't. So what is the point? The skater would be better served if he or she were judged realistically, so they could spend more time addressing their short comings before Worlds or the Olympics . Inflation should be frowned on and discouraged by all imo. And any judge who does that should be called to task.:scowl:
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
I don't disagree that bronze is probably the best Plushy could do at Sochi, but does he agree? I don't think he will come back at all if he doesn't think he can win the gold medal He already has the gold, more medals are meaningless for him unless he wins another gold. I personally think Plushy will retire after Europeans--but we shall see.

Well you could be right, and I have often said I wouldnt be surprised if his comeback is just limited to domestic (Russian) and European competitions only. Which is perfectly fine, he obviously is still competitive there. It is all his choice obviously. All that said I cant imagine he is so delusional to think if he does show up at the Sochi Olympics it is the same situation as Vancouver even, let alone Turin, and that if he somehow snuck onto the podium and won a bronze medal he would throw another hissy fit similar to Vancouver. If he does show up it probably does mean he has some belief, but I am sure he would also know he definitely isnt the favorite this time.
 

lilywang

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Well, some talk the talk, some walk the walk!

If it is easy to compete in your forth Olympic, Plushy may not be interested in doing it in the first place. ;)
 
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LRK

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Nov 13, 2012
But he has determination - if anybody can do it by willpower alone, it's Plushy. Me, I have no doubts.

ETA @lilywang - Agreed!
 

gmyers

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Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I dont think Plush had a clean skate at Nationals, an iffy quad, no 3-3 combo,UR or downgraded -I m not sure- on 3z-2t, low levels on spins, and his score was even less than Euros, with inflated pcs yes. And I dont remember Dai, Hanyu and Fernandez falling all over the place in GPF, Daisuke fell on the first quad, who else? Nationals aside, it was supposed to be of their best performances. Chan's score was lower anyway.

His euros 2010 performance would probably not have medaled in Vancouver because of the doubled jump and big free skate problems he had in euros 2010 which was similar to his Russian nationals free skate this year. Like the << plushenko got at this years Russian nationals was part of a free skate that would not be competitive for good against a gpf Fernandez in the fs. So he has to improve for eruos 2012 like his improvement on jumps from 2010 euros to 2010 Olympics which was plushenkos best performance with jumps because there was no doubling of any triples or tripling of any quads.
 

let`s talk

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Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Well, some talk the talk, some walk the walk!

If it is easy to compete in your forth Olympic, Plushy may not be interested in doing it in the first place. ;)
Ha-ha! I admire seniorita's patience who still bothers to reply on all this stuff. :biggrin:
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Plushenko main goal is gold medal in Sochi. If he skates clean, he will be out of reach, with all inprovment to his skating in last couple of years he can even have a few mistakes and still win gold. As of today, I don't see any areas where he has real weakness.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The future will take care of itself. But just think about this. Since Russian (not Soviet) Nationals were reinstated in 1993, the score is Plushenko 10, all others combined, 11. :)
 
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