Sasha Cohen should be a PAIR SKATER...now hear me out please! (:^)

Hmmm.....

I've actually been thinking about this for quite some time, and by that I mean for a few years now, but especially after the disastrous showing of American Pairs yesterday.

Think about it.......she has everything that is needed to excel in this favorite discipline of mine........small powerful exquisite build, outstanding flexibility, drop dead gorgeous line/carriage/posture/et al, peeeeeeerfect toepoint, aesthetically gorgeous (like a real life porcelain doll), phenomenal presentation, daring & brave, and last but not least she is a powerful jumper that can easily land those few triple jumps that are necessary in pairs skating! My gosh, I honestly think she can become a more powerful version of Katia Gordeeva (no lie). In fact, for me, she would be a perfect blending of two of my all-time favorite female pairs skaters ~ that is the powerful & gutsy Sarah Abitbol and the lovely & elegant Katia Gordeeva. She'll not only blow everybody away in American pairs, but the world as well! I really don't think it is too far fetched ~ she was made for pairs skating IMHO.

Please, Sasha, think about it.........you'll get to the top a whole lot easier in pairs than in singles IMHO.........and in the process create a whole new phenomena in pairs skating in the USA (if not the world). The same way that Steve Prefontaine did when he switched from the mile (which was thee discipline back then that everybody cared about it) to the 3-mile. The world is your oyster & it's waiting for you. All's you have to do is reach for it...

***Note: btw, when Sasha skated to "Romeo & Juliet", the whole time I kept thinking how even more marvelous it would look w/a partner by her side (no lie). And though my first pick would be Fedor Andreev (both would be reminiscent of G&G), my second pick would be Aaron Parchem b/c he's already an American.***

Peace & Love & Hopeful, Nadine ^D

P.S. Btw, pairs skating is the most dangerous of the three disciplines, and if anybody could conquer it, that would be Sasha Cohen IMHO.

GOOOOOOOOOO SASHA!!!!

I've always felt Sasha would make a great pairs skater from a physical point. She is the perfect build and imagine the positions she could get in on lifts and spins. The problem of course would be finding the perfect partner. I'm also not sure if mentally she'd be able to work with someone else unless they were totally suited for each other. I know that she and Johnny Weir have joked around about doing pairs together after their singles careers are done. Johnny is a CW skater though. Sasha has said she'd like to do pairs in a show but didn't seem to have any interest on an elgible level. Maybe she could be like Yuka Sato. Need to find her a male pairs skater to fall in love with. That maybe the only way you'll see her do it.

Interesting idea as always, Nadine (no lie ). It is undeniable that Sasha has the "look," carriage, and flexibility that would be stunning in pairs. However, such a move has disadvantages that IMO outweigh the advantage. First and foremost would be the amount of time necessary to switch to pair skating. Finding a partner that would complement and could match her skills would be an involved, long process, and added to the time it would take to learn the pairs skills, it might keep her out of competition for a while. Also, given her fiery spirit, it might be difficult for her to put her fate in the hands of another, so to speak. Another counterargument lies in her mental toughness; if this is indeed her problem, changing to pairs wouldn't help, since she still needs to land a SBS triple toe or salchow and a double axel and there is no room to add another jump, unlike in single skating. Finally, while it is admittedly frustrating to see her continually fall at important events, those falls still have given her 3 US National silvers, a Grand Prix Final silver and gold, and 4th place finishes at Worlds and the Olympics. Not too shabby.

InsecureEdge

Thank you both, LBC & insecureedge, for your comments (& for taking what I said seriously)....

LBC - yes, I see what you mean about finding the right partner & maybe what Sasha needs is to fall in love w/somebody. And on that note, I already know for a fact that she has/had a crush on Fedor Andreev.......she has mentioned it in the past (a couple of yrs. ago in fact) that she would like to try pairs w/Fedor........I'll have to go search for those quotes but she did say them. And I remember b/c at the time I wanted Nicole Watt, whom looks just like Sasha except more delicate (btw people even used to get these two confused at the rinks b/c they resemble one another so much, no lie), and being a huge Nicole Watt fan I wanted her paired w/Fedor, not Sasha. However, that has now all changed......Nicole's juvenile arthritis has come back w/a vengeance........and now I wouldn't mind Sasha being the one. Lol , please remember that this is in my perfect dream world, as if I can place Fedor with whomever I choose.

***Note: btw, I always thought it was rather interesting that Jennifer (whom I adore & whom will always hold a soft spot in my heart) hooked up w/Fedor in pairs - listening to rink rumours over the yrs. I got the impression that there was quite a bit of competition b/w Jennifer & Sasha - and, honestly, as soon as I heard Jennifer was paired w/Fedor, I thought hmmm.... ***

insecureedge - yes, I agree with what you say except I think the advantages would far outweigh the disadvantages.......especially in terms of rising to the top far more quickly, which seems to me a great incentive for someone like Sasha Cohen........whom strikes me as the type of person that when she wants something, she wants it now & will try her darndest to get it (i.e. will work her hardest to achieve it). However, the downside is what you mention........if the problem lies in mental toughness, which I think it does (she's built like a rock & is a perfectionist, 'nuff said).........she'll have the same problem in pairs as she does in singles. And for that I would recommend a good psychologist/hypnotist/et al, though I will always maintain that some people are just innately gifted this way, while others are not, and there's not really much one can do about it (JMHO). Still, either way I think pairs would be best b/c there is not as much pressure to land 6/7 triple jumps (not to mention 3/3s, etc.). In other words, I think pairs would be a lot less pressurized for Sasha than singles. Once again, JMHO.

Peace & Love, Nadine

P.S. I, too, think that 3 National silvers, a GPF silver & gold, and 4th place finishes at Worlds & Olympics are nothing to sneeze at. However, she could do even better in pairs IMHO. And at the same time create a revivance of this wonderful discipline again in America.

MODIFIED TO ADD: wait a minute....what have I been thinking....Ryan Bradley would be perfect for pairs. Another great candidate for Sasha IMHO. What US Pairs needs is to pair two great Top 10 or 5 skaters from singles together. Choosing from the bottom of the pack does not cut it (aka Marcy Hinzmann). Heck, Sasha can do what Jennifer Don & Jennifer Kirk are now doing (i.e. both pairs & singles). JMHO.

sasha in pairs

while i think sasha should stick to singles, the only guy i can see her skating with is:

Matt Lind


Btw- who thinks Angela should switch to dance? Maybe her and Peter Tchernyshev would have a future together...Peter's comment to Tanith was a bit cryptic- that HE will come back to beat her (he didn't say THEY, he said HE...hmmmm...and it's funny, this was on the original USFSA article for the dance final; yesterday it was edited out.)

Interesting comments as always, Nadine. But lest we forget, if we're talking medals, that Sasha won five gold at either GP events, the GPF, or cheezefests, and this season she won four golds, including Campbell's where she beat Michelle. Michelle is clearly the superior skater, but I think you're making too much out of one fall and one bobble in Sasha's LP at Nats. At most Nationals, she would have won handily, but Sasha happens to be trying to make her mark at the same time a living legend is skating. She regularly hits 5 to 6 triples in her LPs and in '02 did land 3L/3t. I hear and understand your arguments--4th at Olympics and two worlds--but IMO there were factors in those situations that would be similar to telling Michelle, "Well, you haven't won the OGM in two tries, go pro." On the surface, the argument makes sense, but when you really look at the situation, it's not right for the individual.

BTW, I think Sasha has been branded as having a "fiery" or "difficult" personality because John Nicks, by his own admission, was tired of presenting his skaters to the press as "cute little girls in pink dresses." Sasha, by her own admission, has described herself as "determined" and "aggressive" but at least I don't think that means the same as difficult. Besides, it's not as if team skaters are all easy-going, always agreeable people. Let's see, Barbara Fusar-Poli, Marina Anissina, Pasha Grishuk, Kyoko Ina, Oksana Kasakova, Christopher Dean, Isabelle Duschanay, Jamie Sale, David Pelletier--do I make my point yet? Tanith Belbin went through four or five partners before she clicked with Ben.

Anyway, I'm sure, Nadine. that you're making this suggestion out of a newfound appreciation for Sasha's skating and feeling bad for her disappointment. You described how dejected she seemed in the interview after the competition, but I didn't get that at all--and on the Exhibitions Terry Gannon said the same thing, that he talked to Sasha afterwards and she "didn't seem dejected at all." Yes, Sasha has problems skating a clean short and long back-to-back, but so did Nancy Kerrigan. And maybe Sasha never will win a Nationals or World medal as long as Michelle is skating, and after that some other new star may beat her. IMO Sasha has too much talent as a singles skater to do pairs. Yes, she would make a lovely pairs skater at least regarding lifts. But the problems that plague her in singles would still be there in pairs--that is, whatever it is that prevents her from giving a 6-triple performance at Nationals and so far Worlds. It would still affect her in throw jumps and SBS jumps. After all, she did fall on a 3t.

I think a stronger case can be made for Ryan Bradley. He hasn't had any international or national success as far as medaling as a singles skater. Plus he's a big guy, almost 6 ft. If Sasha had started out in pairs, that would be one thing, but she didn't. I just watched her on the exhibitions and she was gorgeous--clean jumps, lovely emotion. I like Sasha just where she is, it's just that as I said, she's skating at the same time Michelle is hitting yet another peak in a series of peaks. I mean, other centers didn't change positions just because Michael Jordan was around Give Sasha a chance with Robin. Even if she never wins the BIG gold, she can still work to fulfill her potential as a singles skater. Who knows? She ma have some problem that hasn't been identified yet that has nothing to do with focus and that can be solved with the right approach.
Rgirl

Dang, Rgirl, you sure do remind me of my best friend in college ~ Ginger ~ couldthaSouthernerevatalk & get us all into trouble w/the boyzzz (btw I'm the exact same way, lol, here I go)!

Rgirl said:

Sasha won five gold at either GP events, the GPF, or cheezefests, and this season she won four golds, including Campbell's. She regularly hits 5 to 6 triples in her LPs and in '02 did land 3L/3t. I hear and understand your arguments--4th at Olympics and two worlds--but IMO there were factors in those situations On the surface, the argument makes sense, but when you really look at the situation, it's not right for the individual.

ME: first off, I admit that I do not know what's right for Sasha ~ only she does. Thus, I am only giving my opinions and what I think would be good for her. That said, I don't place a lot of value on any of those GP golds....it's great that Sasha won those.....but, to me, everything leads to the Olympics (not the other way around). One will see everyone going all out during the Olympic season in preparation for the big one. However, Nationals & Worlds are equally important in one's career, especially Worlds b/c that's when one goes against the best in the world (not just one's countrywomen/men). And therein comes my worry and my noting of what you also mentioned in your post up above (aka 4th). Btw, I too acknowledge that she regularly hits those triples, but she also regularly has some sort of mishap or fall throughout her entire skating career, especially notable at the big ones (aka Nationals, Worlds, Olympics).
***Note: I cut out your mentions of Michelle b/c this has nothing to do with her IMHO, unless it means more bad luck for Sasha to be competing against her. ***

it's not as if team skaters are all easy-going, always agreeable people. Let's see, Barbara Fusar-Poli, Marina Anissina, Pasha Grishuk, Kyoko Ina, Oksana Kasakova, Christopher Dean, Isabelle Duschanay, Jamie Sale, David Pelletier--do I make my point yet? Tanith Belbin went through four or five partners before she clicked with Ben.

ME: lol , yeah, I do have to agree with you....great citing of those ones up above.......especially Marina Anissina, whom I adore (broken heart since she & Gwendal quit skating, no lie ). Btw, I never brought up Sasha's "supposed" attitude ~ none of us really know her ~ so I think that's all b.s. In fact, my instinct tells me that she puts on a front to hide how vulnerable she really is (reminds me of the astrological sign of the crab). Though I do think she can be any one of those things (aka angel, devil, diva, demure, sweet, etc.) on any given day, but aren't we all. I know I sure as heck am!

Anyway, I'm sure, Nadine. that you're making this suggestion out of a newfound appreciation for Sasha's skating and feeling bad for her disappointment.

ME: Rgirl, hmmm, think you're right.....I remember laying eyes on her for the first time at a pro-am during the Fall of 1999......and though I saw how pretty & cute she and her skating were, she didn't move me. And my ambivalence continued on & off while she was competing against an all-time favorite of mine (aka Sarah Hughes). Still, I never failed to note her extraordinary gifts throughout those years or her gutsiness, especially at the Olympics, where I feared if she landed everything she would beat Sarah no matter how magical Sarah skated that night (and I truly think she would've). However, the turning point really came for me at 2003 Worlds......was blown away by her landing of the 3Z/3T......and as a result was literally "crushed" when she didn't capture the bronze (was truly heartbroken for her, as I am now). And the reason for that is b/c, for once, I would really like to see her live up to her potential at one of the big ones ~ the ones that have been around forever, go on a skater's resume, and can either make or break a skater ~ Nationals, Worlds, Olympics. Anyhow, yes, a newfound appreciation of Sasha's skating came for me this year....first at TL exhibition performances....and then followed up at Nationals. With it culminating today with "Romeo & Juliet" ~ literally shed tears for her for the first time ever during this performance. She has finally moved me ~ it started with the SP, built up during the FS, and finally broke during the exhibition.

You described how dejected she seemed in the interview after the competition, but I didn't get that at all--and on the Exhibitions Terry Gannon said the same thing, that he talked to Sasha afterwards and she "didn't seem dejected at all."

ME: yes, I heard Terry say that too during the exhibitions......but once again it's all in the eyes of the beholder......b/c my perception was entirely different.

IMO Sasha has too much talent as a singles skater to do pairs. Yes, she would make a lovely pairs skater at least regarding lifts. But the problems that plague her in singles would still be there in pairs--that is, whatever it is that prevents her from giving a 6-triple performance at Nationals and so far Worlds. It would still affect her in throw jumps and SBS jumps. After all, she did fall on a 3t.

ME: we'll have to agree to disagree.......not on her talent b/c, yes, she has it in spades.......but rather on pairs skating. I, for one, hold pairs skating in the same high regard as I do singles (no lie). OTOH, it seems from your post that you do not (JMHO). And I would be literally ecstatic if Sasha chose pairs, no b.s. I think her talent could shine even moreso in this discipline........not just lifts........but throws, unison skating, pair spins, passion, presentation, everything! ***Note: kinda off-topic, but I always find it sad when I see Katia Gordeeva skating solo ~ she shines in pairs ~ JMHO***

I like Sasha just where she is. Give Sasha a chance with Robin. Even if she never wins the BIG gold, she can still work to fulfill her potential as a singles skater. Who knows? She may have some problem that hasn't been identified yet that has nothing to do with focus and that can be solved with the right approach.

ME: actually, my thinking of Sasha as a pairs skater has nothing to do w/Robin Wagner, et al. I'm sure Robin will do all she can for Sasha. No, my suggestion came from a genuine love of pairs skating and a desire to see Sasha & American pairs skating flourish (no lie). Anyhow, I wish her luck and no matter what will continue to enjoy watching her gutsy & beautiful skating.

Click to expand...

Peace & Love, Nadine ^)

Thanks for your thoughtful and considerate reply, Nadine--your posts are always thoughtful Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on most things, but I just want to make one point. I LOVE pairs skating and in absolutely no way do I hold it in any less regard than singles. I think pairs is actually more difficult than singles because you have to put your trust and faith in another person. AWhen I spoke of Sasha being great in the lifts, in no way did I mean to imply that I think of pairs skating as just lifts. In fact it's "all the other stuff" in pairs that I especially love--though of course I love great lifts. One look at a pair such as G&G or Berezhnaya&Sikharulidze or any of the great pairs of the last 15 years should convince anybody that pairs is killer difficult. As I said in my post, if Sasha had started in pairs that would be one thing, but she didn't. Anyway, always interesting to debate an interesting issue and I hope you know how much I respect your opinion. BTW, we DO agree that none of us knows Sasha so any speculation about her personality is pointless. I think we also agree that we both with Sasha well, whatever she chooses to do
Rgirl
PS What was that thing about me reminding of your friend in college who talked in a way that got you all in trouble with the boys? Can I get more details on that?

Lol, Rgirl,

I'm, literally, wiped out/spent/emotionally drained from Nationals.......I've had it......and plan to take a break until at least 4CC & Euros.

Thanks, btw, for clarifying your position on pairs. And for your kind remarks (ditto). However, I must protest ~ I'm not always considerate ~ heck no, especially when I get my dander up!

As to my cryptic remarks about my best friend in college, Ginger, all's I meant was that we gals sure could talk especially when arguing w/the guys over a variety of subjects. I always said that Ginger should've been a lawyer, especially when going on & on about Yankees vs. Southerners.

Peace & Love, Nadine

Nadine = this is my personal feeling about Pairs. Nothing against what you said because so many posters have used that phrase for other skaters. But, it's just not my opinion, but fact, that Pairs happens to be an exquisite artistic event in figure skating, and when I read someone say that Naomi Nori Nan should switch to Pairs; or Jenny Kirk should switch to Pairs, without any explanation of why they should do so. I'm reading into it that the poster is saying that the skater should go to an easier discipline. Not so! I have skated both myself. Kristi Yamaguchi did both and did both well. It came to a point where a decision had to be made. Only she could make that decision. And, imo, a decision doesn't have to be made. Let the skater decide what to do. If you are really serious about a change for Sasha (I do not share that change), then what male skater would you insist change to Pairs whether he wants to or not?

Your suggestion is incomplete, imo. Perhaps you can elaborate on it.

Joe

love this topic, as I always thought if it didn't work out for Sasha Abt, he should switch to ice dancing.....and skate with Galina Maniachenko, who used to be a pair skater.....

I agree with Nadine that in terms of physique and skills, Sasha would make a perfect pairs skater.

But unfortunately, I don't think pairs skating would work for her because Sasha is just too strong-willed, ambitious, and self-directed. I can't imagine her putting up with a partner's moods, requests, and demands. I also can't imagine her being willing to share the spotlight!

And of course the other problem would be finding a partner whose talent equaled hers. That's no easy task when you're as good as Sasha is.

I think Jenny is more likely to be successful in pairs than Sasha, because Jenny seems like a more relaxed, open person. As such, I think she's more likely to be able to sustain a good personal relationship with a partner. And also, I think Jenny's skating style is a little more malleable and less unique than Sasha's, which may actually make it easier for her to mesh with a partner. I really wish her and Fedor the best; I've always thought he should try pairs.

Oh my gosh, it's 12:47 AM, but I had to log on...

Being an insomniac, a little while ago I was listening to Sheryl Crow's song "I Shall Believe" while thinking about Sasha Cohen. Then I gazed outside my window & noticed a beautiful half moon surrounded by midnight velvet clouds. It was so gorgeous that I decided to go outside to smell the fresh crisp evening air. And what do you know, when I looked up into the sky over my house, I saw the BIG DIPPER (no lie). This stunning site accompanied with Sheryl Crow's heartfelt lyrics gave me such hope for Sasha. And reaffirmed my faith in her as a skater. It felt like it was meant to be, like a sign. Anyhow, despite the late hour, I needed to share this w/fellow Sasha Fans (like me).

In closing, here are the lyrics to Sheryl's song "I Shall Believe":

"Come to me now. Lay your hands over me. Even if it's a lie. Say it will be alright. And I will believe. Broken in two. I know you're on to me. That I only come home. When I'm so all alone. But I do believe. That not everything is gonna be the way. You think it ought to be. It seems like every time I try to make it right. It all comes down on me. Please say honestly you won't give up on me. And I shall believe. I shall believe. Open the door. And show me your face tonight. I know it's true. No one heals me like you. And you hold the key. Never again. Would I turn away from you. I'm so heavy tonight. But your love is alright. And I do believe. That not everything is gonna be the way. You think it ought to be. Seems like every time I try to make it right. It all comes down on me. Please say honestly. You won't give up on me. And I shall believe. I shall believe. I shall believe. I shall believe."

Peace & Love & Sweet Dreams, Nadine ^)

GOOD LUCK AT WORLDS, LITTLE ONE!!!

Click on the little yellow face with the tongue sticking out to see a real pear skater:



BA-DA-BOOM!

You all are just too smart and informed for me to engage in this debate. However, I did find the comment on Angela switching to dance an interesting one. I don't know enough about her personality (she seems really sweet) to guess whether or not she could work with a partner but she is so elegant and smooth, has great edges, can skate fast and can handle footwork well that it makes me think she might be successful at dance. I love her skating, triples or no triples, and would like to see her continue on in FSing. And I like Naomi too much to even suggest Peter team up with anyone else. Off topic, I know (must be the ADD) , but what the hell. Maybe someone will start another tread.

Hi Idle,

Gotta agree -- that REALLY is a great pear skater!

I would rather watch the american dominance in womens contiue with sasha at michelles side then to see her go to pairs she is just two amazing of a single skater to leave it behind.

I think Sasha would have made a lovely pair skater if she had started at a younger age. At this point I think it would be too difficult to find the right partner and to have the patience to work it out for several years. It would be 1 in a million shot if it worked.

As a single skater I think Sasha is excellent - she has fallen in some programs this season, but I think the announcers make too much of it. Most skaters make at least one mistake in their long program. Maybe its not fair that she is expected to be as consistent as a Kwan. Perhaps it is because of how well she skates in practice but that is a whole 'nuther can of beans.

Nadine said:

Oh my gosh, it's 12:47 AM, but I had to log on...

Being an insomniac, a little while ago I was listening to Sheryl Crow's song "I Shall Believe" while thinking about Sasha Cohen. Then I gazed outside my window & noticed a beautiful half moon surrounded by midnight velvet clouds. It was so gorgeous that I decided to go outside to smell the fresh crisp evening air. And what do you know, when I looked up into the sky over my house, I saw the BIG DIPPER (no lie). This stunning site accompanied with Sheryl Crow's heartfelt lyrics gave me such hope for Sasha. And reaffirmed my faith in her as a skater. It felt like it was meant to be, like a sign. Anyhow, despite the late hour, I needed to share this w/fellow Sasha Fans (like me).

In closing, here are the lyrics to Sheryl's song "I Shall Believe":

"Come to me now. Lay your hands over me. Even if it's a lie. Say it will be alright. And I will believe. Broken in two. I know you're on to me. That I only come home. When I'm so all alone. But I do believe. That not everything is gonna be the way. You think it ought to be. It seems like every time I try to make it right. It all comes down on me. Please say honestly you won't give up on me. And I shall believe. I shall believe. Open the door. And show me your face tonight. I know it's true. No one heals me like you. And you hold the key. Never again. Would I turn away from you. I'm so heavy tonight. But your love is alright. And I do believe. That not everything is gonna be the way. You think it ought to be. Seems like every time I try to make it right. It all comes down on me. Please say honestly. You won't give up on me. And I shall believe. I shall believe. I shall believe. I shall believe."

Peace & Love & Sweet Dreams, Nadine ^)

GOOD LUCK AT WORLDS, LITTLE ONE!!!

Click to expand...

I love this song but are you sure it's Sheryl Crow? For some reason I thought it was Beth Orton.....? Very interesting thread btw.