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Thread: Russian Team for 2013 Euros and Worlds

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    But, I still class the Europeans and the Worlds at a level above the Grand Prix Series and the Junior competitions.
    Well that's how you perceive it from the outside. I highly doubt that cognitively Europeans is something that the skaters conceive very differently than other major events like Junior Worlds or GPF.

    Especially when you consider that at a certain point those events were the most prestigious events that Tuk and Sotnikova could enter. So at that point in time, that event was conceived in their minds as "the most important".

    They've been through this many times. Euros will just be a different setting but a very comparable amount of pressure.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    But, I still think Polina K is much better at the moment than you are giving her credit for. And I would definitely not use the word “mediocre” to describe somebody that was the “best of the rest” behind Adelina, Liza and Elena Radionova after the SP at Russian Nationals. As I say, she was just unfortunate to have a bad FS on the day.
    No, she wasn't 'just unfortunate to have a bad FS on the day'. As has been said already, she hasn't had a single good competition since 2012 Euros.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Leonovas pcs didn't help leonova medal or anything but her scores would've been lower. Mao did two kinds of triples to win an event - four in total so pcs does matter most.
    Leonova isn't Asada and she isn't Kostner either. Leonova is Leonova.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Kostner abandoned lutz.
    Because of injury. It's back now and she has landed it at Italian Nationals.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Pcs does matter a lot and is most important and because it's a guarantee leonovas pcs would be better than gosvianis that should have mattered more. If you have two people and one will get lower pcs even if they land all their jumps and another could land similar jumps but higher pcs the second person should be sent.
    Yes, let's send somebody who didn't deserve it just because they generally get higher PCS. Can't you see how doing something like this is not only fundamentally unfair but also a motivation killer for the other skaters?

  2. #122
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    The Russian federation doesn't care. They are sending kovtun. Nationals order for the third spot was not connected. Third spot anything could be criteria. Bronze at nationals or third eligible didn't matter. Pcs from judges at euros is just as Legit as anything. Sotnikova is not reliable in any way and rather than send leonova they are going with gosviani? There is no sense in that and Leonova losing to gosviani by one point is not important really kovtun lost to two people who were actually eligible while gosviani wasn't. Leonova being dumped by the federation is not the best thing for Russian skating. Dumping the world silver medalist like that.
    Last edited by gmyers; 01-13-2013 at 01:13 AM.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    The Russian federation doesn't care. They are sending kovtun. Nationals order for the third spot was not connected. Third spot anything could be criteria. Bronze at nationals or third eligible didn't matter. Pcs from judges at euros is just as Legit as anything. Sotnikova is not reliable in any way and rather than send leonova they are going with gosviani? .
    Gosviyani is a terrible LP skater from most of her records
    my concern her pcs will be so poor in Euros, if she makes mistakes her pcs could be on Polina Shelepen's range which was beyond horrendous 124+ score

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    The Russian federation doesn't care. They are sending kovtun. Nationals order for the third spot was not connected. Third spot anything could be criteria. Bronze at nationals or third eligible didn't matter. Pcs from judges at euros is just as Legit as anything. Sotnikova is not reliable in any way and rather than send leonova they are going with gosviani? There is no sense in that and Leonova losing to gosviani by one point is not important really kovtun lost to two people who were actually eligible while gosviani wasn't. Leonova being dumped by the federation is not the best thing for Russian skating. Dumping the world silver medalist like that.
    IMO, RFSF may be doing Leonova a favor by keeping her home. She is not ready for Euros, she just changed her FS and isn't able to land a proper amount of triples (and to get good scores Alena needs to skate perfect or close to perfect, she is not Mao and can't rely on high PCS with falls and URs), what she needs now is to train and get into shape. Her possible result considering her current shape is not needed at Euros: Liza and Adelina together are more than capable to keep 3 spots even with mistakes, and both have good chances to medal. And Worlds is still possible for Alena if she skates well at the Russian cup final, hopefully this situation will motivate her to train harder and skate better. IMO last seasons the upcoming youngsters pushed her, she knew she had to skate perfect to have a chance for Sochi Olympics, and after her Worlds silver Alena relaxed a little and her results went down. As for Gosviani, she really shined at Nationals (IMO, she should have beat Leonova by more than just 2 points) and deserves her chance. She is young and promising, maybe this chance is a beginning of a very succesful career (Leonova in 2008/2009 season, by the way, was only 5th at Nationals and went to Euros instead of 4 place finisher, who could have said then that 3 years later she would be GPF and Worlds medalist?). Honestly, I'm not a big fan of Nicole, she is prone to URs and it can be a big problem as we could see with Nagasu, her steps are weak and spins are average at best, but she is a lovely skater, very musical, and she is young and has time to work on her weaknesses.

    As for Menshov/Kovtun situation: IMO, the main reason is to find a skater who can make top 10 at Worlds and get 2 spots for the Olympics. Russia needs the second skater there, because there are good chances for team medal, even gold, and who knows if Plushenko would be able to skate 4 programs, it's very hard for any skater and he is not 20 anymore. Menshov is very inconsistent and doesn't skate well under pressure, and there's no point to even consider Kovtun for Worlds without senior experience. And it's not like Menshov skated well at Nationals, IMO, if the difference between him and Kovtun were more than 4 points, he would go to Euros

  5. #125
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    I'm just saying whoever leonova lost to wasn't the then current world silver medalist! To be so dumped and obviously dumped is just so bad. And gosviani wasnt even Eligible! She got eligibility for euros yesterday! This is really beyond bad for leonova and the Russian federation just likely ended her career forever for medals or even pcs higher than gosviani would get. So you might as well just send gosviani because now I just really see how the Russian federation ended leonovas career for someone younger and who wasn't even eligible with the Tes mins.

  6. #126
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    Leonova could have secured her chance by winning at least 3rd spot at nationals. It isnt like she skated well the rest of season and Russian Nationals was a fluke. For some reason she has had a bad season so far. Have you thought of the idea that her team asked itself that she doesnt go to Euros and gets a chance to have a good preparation for Worlds? I think RF is targetting to send her to Worlds with Liza and Adelina, they dont invest much on Euros right now. If she was "dumbed" I believe Morosov would have made some sort of fuss a la Kovtun.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I'm just saying whoever leonova lost to wasn't the then current world silver medalist! To be so dumped and obviously dumped is just so bad. And gosviani wasnt even Eligible! She got eligibility for euros yesterday! This is really beyond bad for leonova and the Russian federation just likely ended her career forever for medals or even pcs higher than gosviani would get. So you might as well just send gosviani because now I just really see how the Russian federation ended leonovas career for someone younger and who wasn't even eligible with the Tes mins.
    Ended Leonova career? Isn't it too dramatic? It's not like the doors are closed forever, she still has plenty of opportunities to get back to where she was: if she skates really well at the Russian cup final she will go to Worlds even if Gosviani has a decent showing at Europeans, I'm sure about that. Then there will be World team trophy (Liza and Adelina most likely will go, but it's not like Alena has no chance) and two Grand Prix events next season (I'm sure she will get two, they will give her host spot at Cup of Russia if needed). Yes, youngsters are good, but they are not unbeatable if Alena skates really well. The point is: she was a mess whole season, bombed at the GP and then at Nationals. There are only 3 weeks between Nationals and Euros, if she was out of shape whole season, what are her chances to get into shape in three weeks? And why not to give a chance Gosviani who skated very well and actually beat Leonova?

  8. #128
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    I'll just answer for gmyers since he/she has only said the same thing 455 times on this thread already- "PCS, world silver medal, Gosviani is a nobody, @$#(@*%@"... At this point everyone, myself included, has made a good case for Gosviani going to Euros, but this is like arguing with the president of the NRA on gun control....

  9. #129
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    Since Menshov podiumed, I really hope he gets sent to the Euro over Kovtun. Kovtun can be sent to the Jr. Worlds instead, where he has a pretty good chance to podium, even to win the comp if he is lucky enough, considering the result of Jr. GPF, doesn't he?

  10. #130
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    If leonova didn't want to To go to euros then she had the option of not competing at the nationals and focusing on the last competition of cup if Russia before worlds.

    The picking of someone not even eligible for euros as gosviani wasn't is important because it shows that the Russian federation will even chose ineligible skaters over leonova and then send then to get the scores just so they can skate and leonova can't. Truly searching the world just so Theres no leonova in a competition.

    Now I don't think it will matter about pcs because the signal is so strong of dumping leonova.

  11. #131
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    If leonova didn't want to To go to euros then she had the option of not competing at the nationals and focusing on the last competition of cup if Russia before worlds.

    The picking of someone not even eligible for euros as gosviani wasn't is important because it shows that the Russian federation will even chose ineligible skaters over leonova and then send then to get the scores just so they can skate and leonova can't. Truly searching the world just so Theres no leonova in a competition.

    Now I don't think it will matter about pcs because the signal is so strong of dumping leonova.
    You just said that the Russian Fed should send Leonova because she gets high PCS (due to her reputation of being the reigning World silver medalist) but are now saying she's getting dumped by her own federation, which typically means getting dumped in PCS. Which is it?

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Truly searching the world just so Theres no leonova in a competition.
    If by "truly searching the world" you mean going by their own results at Nationals, then yes. I'm looking forward to Canadian "Searching the World" Nationals this week and US "trash to treasures" Nationals the week after. I know it will be such an unbearable inconvenience for the established stars to travel to the location and compete with the unworthy no-name plebes.

  13. #133
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    Gosviani was ineligible for Euros because she did not have the tes minimums and then had to get even though leonova already had it!

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    You just said that the Russian Fed should send Leonova because she gets high PCS (due to her reputation of being the reigning World silver medalist) but are now saying she's getting dumped by her own federation, which typically means getting dumped in PCS. Which is it?
    I had to change my opinion because now that leonova has been so publicly dumped she'll never get the pcs she used to so that line of thinking was mistaken.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I had to change my opinion because now that leonova has been so publicly dumped
    Why?

    At http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/ in "Main" only three articles. One of them - Leonova's interview.

    At http://rsport.ru/stat/figureskating/...4/profile.html (articles with tag "Leonova") - article http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20121228/637478293.html "Piseev - Leonova did not lose chance to Worlds"

    (all links - Russian language)

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