Lutz or Flutz?
- Thread starter show 42
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
flutz
angela almost never flutzes. amber and michelle have straight edge entries. sasha and jenny flutzed (but not as badly as sarah), and ap lipped.
angela almost never flutzes. amber and michelle have straight edge entries. sasha and jenny flutzed (but not as badly as sarah), and ap lipped.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
It's not nice to agree with but I'm afraid the flutz is a semi-offical jump caled "an attempted lutz". Russian gals have the best true lutzes, and the American Men also have good lutzes. Kwan has a good lutz or at her worst a flat take off. Sasha, Sarah and Jennie have true flutzes from the inside edge.
some judges demand true lutzes but most do not, unfortunately. There is no reason why any skater has to flutz. It's a nervous reaction or a lack of learing the jump correctly.
Joe
some judges demand true lutzes but most do not, unfortunately. There is no reason why any skater has to flutz. It's a nervous reaction or a lack of learing the jump correctly.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Nancy Kerrigan has a nice Lutz too.
why does that sound dirty?
why does that sound dirty?
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2003
For those of you who are skaters, why do you think that coaches allow skaters to learn to do the jump wrong? Why don't they correct the problem as soon as they see a student doing a flutz? The longer the skater does a *flutz*, the harder it is going to be to teach him/her to do it correctly.
I'm ambivalent about whether much should be taken off if they do it in the long program, but I definitely think they should be penalized in the SP. The SP is a technical program where they are supposed to show that they can do particular elements, and a *flutz* isn't a lutz. So, why do some judges not penalize them for not doing what they are supposed to be doing?
I'm ambivalent about whether much should be taken off if they do it in the long program, but I definitely think they should be penalized in the SP. The SP is a technical program where they are supposed to show that they can do particular elements, and a *flutz* isn't a lutz. So, why do some judges not penalize them for not doing what they are supposed to be doing?
katherine, the skaters probably do get dinged for "flutzing" which is almost becoming ubiquitous with a lutz where the edge "turns over" before the jump.
It is considered an "attempted lutz' and therefore recieves a fairly high mark of landing a triple jump (usually out of footwork, these days) and the jump isn't marked down (if completed) but the entrance is, so there is an 1-3 point dedcution when someone "flutzes."
The difference between a flutz and a lutz or flip is simply this... a flutz entrance starts out as an outside edge and turns over to an inside one. A true lutz maintians an outside edge from the setup to the finish and a flip does the same thing, only on an indside edge. So there is reason for naming it something in between, but it STILL isn't a TRUE lutz or flip.
However, rumors on the judging circuit are that they are sending a message now and if it isn't corrected in the next generation of skaters (within 5 years) that it will be scored as a missed element, or a downgraded combo element in which one triple lutz will be required to be perfomred to meet the short program requirements.
It is considered an "attempted lutz' and therefore recieves a fairly high mark of landing a triple jump (usually out of footwork, these days) and the jump isn't marked down (if completed) but the entrance is, so there is an 1-3 point dedcution when someone "flutzes."
The difference between a flutz and a lutz or flip is simply this... a flutz entrance starts out as an outside edge and turns over to an inside one. A true lutz maintians an outside edge from the setup to the finish and a flip does the same thing, only on an indside edge. So there is reason for naming it something in between, but it STILL isn't a TRUE lutz or flip.
However, rumors on the judging circuit are that they are sending a message now and if it isn't corrected in the next generation of skaters (within 5 years) that it will be scored as a missed element, or a downgraded combo element in which one triple lutz will be required to be perfomred to meet the short program requirements.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
I think that a true Lutz takes more strength because of having to rotate in the oposite direction, which is awkward.
You can sit there and scream at your car "Fly! Fly I say! Why don't you fly damn it?" but it can't do what it can't do, so it isn't always the coach's fault.
Add to that the fact that the judges had no problem with handing the last two Olympic titles to gals with obvious horrid flutzes, and there you get a group of coaches/skaters/parents who're fairly confident that the judges could give a toss about a true Lutz. Why waste the time when the judges have made it perfectly clear with the past two victories that a 3/3 or two is all they care about.
Okay, this has been bothering for quite awhile and I would be really thankful if somebody can clarify something for me.
Well I know there are three toe jumps: the toe loop, lutz, and the flip. The lutz is on the outside edge, the flip is on the inside edge, what is the toe loop on, the flat edge?
Well I know there are three toe jumps: the toe loop, lutz, and the flip. The lutz is on the outside edge, the flip is on the inside edge, what is the toe loop on, the flat edge?
Sasha's 'flutz' takes off from her inside back edge. There is no flipping from outside edge to inside edge, as we saw with Sarah. My take is that Sasha has never learned a true lutz. There is virtually no difference between her 'flutz' and her 'flip'. That being the case, she could potentially be penalized because in effect, her FS has two identical flip combinations and two triple flips.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
The lutz is on the outside edge of the left foot, the flip is on the inside edgeof the left foot , the toe loop is on the outside edgeof the right foot
All 6 jumps land on the outside edge of the right foot (unless one is a clockwise skater like Sarah Hughes or Todd Eldridge) . Only the toeloop and the loop take off from the outside right edge, that is why you only see toe loops and loops as the second jump in combinations.
Great responses........now here's another lame question from me........if some of the skaters take off from the flat of their skate, either on a lutz or a flip, instead of an inside or an outside edge, is it then called something different? 42
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
Taking off of the flat
Not sure about the flip.
If a skater attempting a lutz took off of the flat, I believe it would still technically be called a flutz. Though I think most would soften in by calling it a "slight flutz" or "minor flutz." Switching to the opposite edge is a worse mistake.show 42 said:
Not sure about the flip.
Similar threads
