HELP!!!! Why do skaters skate on an edge?

Is the main goal to gain speed or better control? I'm in the middle of a research project and am getting really confused. :sheesh: If we just consider the friction between the blade and the ice, it wouldn't be any less by skating on an edge since the mass of the skater remains the same. So why do skaters skate on an edge? Any physics expert here? And what makes a speed skater skate faster than another? Is it simply a matter of how much power output is given by the skater?

to answer your speed skater question...
1. the blades. they are made for speed long and thin
2. the ice. speed skating ice is harder than fs or hockey ice so the blades don't sink in as much reducing friction
3. training. speed skaters are trained purely for speed. In FS and hockey speed isn't the only aspect nor is it the most important. They focus on strenghting thier thighs and leg muscles while a figure skater has to work on several muscle groups to assist in the different moves, and also to keep them balanced for jumps etc.

The anatomy of a "figure skating" blade is such that it is not flat but has a curvature or hollow that creates two edges one inside and one outside. When there were "figures" you skated on either the outside edge or inside edge and never on both edges. Jumps and spins are done on either edges, for example in a Axel jump the skater take off on a outside edge. If the blades had no "hollow" the skate would slip and make it impossible to do any skating manuvers.

In speed skating the blade is longer which is better for speed and in the hockey blade it is shorter and curved which makes it easier for maneuverability.

Figure skates are used for both speed and maneuverability so their length is about in the middle of speed and hockey skates.

Regardless of the makeup of the blade, which I agree with you, skating as a sport (speed or otherwise) has to move from left to right. If one stayed on the flat, one would only skate forward or backward in a straight line. Not good for speed and certainly not good for a camel spin.

Joe

Another thing with edges...

The pressure from the edge of the blade on the ice is huge! There is the entire weight of the skater distributed over the very small area of the blade that is in contact with the ice. This pressure causes the ice under the blade to melt, so really you're skating on a thin film of water which reduces friction.

~Cassie

Plus if you don't skate on an edge, you klunk around out there like Surya Bonaly, who won 5 European titles before she even had much of a concept of what edges even were. NOT exactly a beautiful effect.

I have to agree that Surya did skate on the flat of her blade most of the time. If she had had a "real" coach and choreographer she would have been a much better skater then what she was.

Joesitz said:

Regardless of the makeup of the blade, which I agree with you, skating as a sport (speed or otherwise) has to move from left to right. If one stayed on the flat, one would only skate forward or backward in a straight line. Not good for speed and certainly not good for a camel spin.

Joe

Click to expand...

Speed skating blades don't have a "flat" because they don't have a hollow.

Hi, so do you know what speed skating blade looks like? What is its anatomy exactly, ie. its bottom? All I know is that the blade is much longer than hockey and figure skating blades. thanks.

All the responses are greatly appreciated BTW

shine:

Figure skating is all about edges. Of course, the figures were the main part of figure skating in the early years and learning to trace figures was a real "art" - one had to learn all the figures and how to trace them on either an inside edge or an outside edge. Edges are still an integral part of skating and using good edge control for jumps or field moves shows the quality of the skater. Ice dancers really use edges.

Speed and flow come with good stroking. Edges are used on crosscuts forwards and backwards. Skaters must get "deep" into their knees to accomplish superior stroking.

You were wondering about speed and control. If you watch a skater like Elivs or Kurt you will notice that they always maintain good speed and control. This is the result of learning good stroking methods and how to control their edges while going at "break neck" speeds. When a skater has good control the speed comes naturally and flows without great effort. Elvis can cover an entire rink with just two or three good strokes. So in answer to your question, the skater wants to have good speed and good control. They go hand in hand.

I hope this helps!

Lad, thank you for the reply. So am I right to think that speed isn't exactly related to deep edge (deep edge doens't necessarily help gaining speed)?

I think it does, while stroking you lean onto the edge of one skate while pushing out with the other, the free leg. If you don't get a deep enough lean onto the edge, you won't be able to push as hard with the free leg.

So am I right to think that speed isn't exactly related to deep edge (deep edge doens't necessarily help gaining speed)?

Click to expand...

That's true, think of a speed skate blade-long and thin unlike a figure blade shorter and "hollow".

A figure skate blade (fsb)is "hollow ground" so it does not really have a "flat". "Skating on the flat" just means that the blade is touching the ice with both edges. A speed skate blade (ssb)is "flat ground" so it really does have a "flat". If you turned the blade up-side down and looked down the length of the bottom of the blade (from heel to toe) you would see that the bottom of the blade is perpendicular to the sides.

Ssb are designed to go in one direction only and fast. No need to stop quickly-in fact- stopping quickly is impossible on ssb because of the flat bottom. Also, they do not have a rocker (curve from heel to toe) like fsb, which are designed to turn every which way one can think of. So with a ssb the entire length of the blade is always in contact with the ice.

As some of you know, Axel Paulsen did his first axel on this type of flat ground blade. Some think the lack of a toe pick would have given him the most problem. Not so. It was the lack of a hollow ground blade, which I THINK (have to do some checking on this one) he helped to design. The hollow grind is what allows the figure skater to start and stop quickly and to hold the edge on the entrances and exits of jumps. The rocker makes it easier to turn forward and backward.

So how does the speed skater hold an edge going around the corner? The answer is, "very carefully". Anyone who has watched speed skating can tell you that aside from getting bumped into by another skater, the place they fall down is the curves. In short track speed skating the blades are mounted on the boot on an angle. The front of the blade is mounted left of the center of the front of the boot. They are also curved ever so slightly to help them make the turns.

More later....

Ok SPEED. Momentum. The longer the force (blade) is in contact with the object (ice) the more momentum. So for speed a longer blade (no rocker-that would mean less blade in contact with ice). And no hollow grind because even though the speed skater would have more control, the hollow grind would allow more surface area of the blade to go "into" the ice increasing friction.

So what about figure skaters and speed? The figure skater must constantly generate speed by pushing off his/her edges. Look at the primary focus of most of the MIF. Power. And the power comes from pushing off an edge (not a toepick! that will surely get you a retry!) Figure skaters must master using all of their edges to create momentum. But that momentum won't last nearly as long (won't go as far as fast) as a speed skate blade.