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Thread: Renewed Czisny ready to return to ice in Omaha

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliasJohnDoe View Post
    Pangtongfan - Alissa has attempted 6 triples in her FP for years now. Planned 7 last year until the 3 salchow wasn't panning out.

    Why is the salchow such an obstacle for her?
    It might just be that the skaters don't practice some of the easier jumps because they want to master harder things like the flip and lutz. Mao also struggles with the salchow, and I think Yuna doesn't do the loop.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Czisny's better performances:

    gold-medal SA 2011 FS: 3z+3t<<, 3fe<<-fo↓, 3lo, 3z<, 2s, 3lo+2t, 2a+2t+2lo

    Worlds 2011 5th place FS: 3z↓, 3f+2t, 3t+2t+2lo, 3lo, 3z+2t, 2a, 3t

    gold medal GPF 2010 FS: 3z+2t, 3f+2t, 3s, 3lo, 3z, 2a-fo, 3t

    gold medal SC 2010 FS: 3z+2t, 3f+2t, 3f, 3lo, 3t, 2a, 3t↓

    bronze medal TEB 2010 FS: 3z+2t, 3f+2t, 3t, 3lo-hd, 3f↓, 2a<fo, 1t

    Only one near-clean FS in the bunch (GPF gold medal), and she finished 3rd in the FS of that event.

    It's interesting to look at the layout of her FS over the 2010-2011 season. It seems she had a different jump layout for each performance, and in all she landed a 3-jump combination only once.

    ETA: Yes, Alissa did beat Kostner at GPF 2010. But Kostner has rarely been in top form in the early season. Carolina did come back to win bronze at Worlds 2011, beating Alissa.
    I must say, I'm very impressed with how you displayed her protocols. That said, she got a < on her flip at the 2010 GPF FS.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliasJohnDoe View Post
    Pangtongfan - Alissa has attempted 6 triples in her FP for years now. Planned 7 last year until the 3 salchow wasn't panning out.

    Why is the salchow such an obstacle for her?
    Alissa is fairly tall for a skater and has pretty long legs, a lot like Mirai Nagasu, who coincidentally also has omitted the salchow for years. So maybe body type has something to do with it?

  3. #33
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Kristi Yamaguchi is a tiny little thing, and she had huge problems with the 3S, so it can't just be height.

    Some like edge jumps, some like toe jumps.

  4. #34
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    There is always one of the jump entrances that gives skaters problems. In history, we see it all the time.

    Yamaguchi: Born with club feet and did pair throw salcows. This made them hard for her as a singles skater.
    Orser: Had a hard time with loop and flip.
    Browning: Lutz intimidated him always.
    Hamilton: never did a correct flip...always a lip.
    YuNa: Had hip pain from loops, so she avoids them as a solo jump.
    Sato: Had GREAT edge jumps, but faltered on toe loop, flip and lutz (always struggled with them).

    Salcows require a lot of non-dominant side leg strength and also a good salcow is timimg. Rush a salcow and you will never get the height you need for a triple, or your axis will be tilted, etc. leading to step-outs, two-footed landings and falls.

    I get the impression that strength and timing are issues when a skater can not master a particular entrance.

  5. #35
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    I'd like to see Alissa do well at nationals but I don't want her on the world team, nor do I think the federation is dumb enough to put her on the team after last year. She'll need to earn her way back in by proving she can skate well.

    Right now all of the other top competitors are showing more consistency and reliability than Alissa, who comes into this year's nationals as a big question mark b/c no one knows how she'll do.

    It's not worth the risk. Ashley will be on the team and that second spot will go to either Gracie, Mirai or Christina...maybe Agnes, though I think her chances are a little lower given her results this season.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    It's not worth the risk. Ashley will be on the team and that second spot will go to either Gracie, Mirai or Christina...maybe Agnes, though I think her chances are a little lower given her results this season.
    I'm thinking Gracie will get the second spot. I think the USFSA sees that she has a great future and can actually compete with the top jumpers in the world. I don't think the US judges will let Mirai beat Gracie on PCS alone; although I find Mirai much better on the PCS criteria, I think they will keep Gracie close because I really do believe they want her on the team if she earns it on TES.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I'd like to see Alissa do well at nationals but I don't want her on the world team, nor do I think the federation is dumb enough to put her on the team after last year. She'll need to earn her way back in by proving she can skate well.

    Right now all of the other top competitors are showing more consistency and reliability than Alissa, who comes into this year's nationals as a big question mark b/c no one knows how she'll do.

    It's not worth the risk. Ashley will be on the team and that second spot will go to either Gracie, Mirai or Christina...maybe Agnes, though I think her chances are a little lower given her results this season.
    I feel the same. I would like Czisny to skate well at Nationals, but I definitely dont want her on the team in a pre Olympic Worlds, and I also feel strongly the U.S judges will keep her off the team no matter what this year, even if she skated lights out and it was a messy event they would still place her 3rd or 4th. Next year could be different if she makes a good showing at Nationals this year, skates well on the fall grand prix (more important than Nationals this year as a poor showing would almost be expected after so long away), and if the U.S regains 3 spots. No spots for the Olympics on the line next year, and with 3 ladies they can afford to send a wild card if need be anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I'm thinking Gracie will get the second spot. I think the USFSA sees that she has a great future and can actually compete with the top jumpers in the world. I don't think the US judges will let Mirai beat Gracie on PCS alone; although I find Mirai much better on the PCS criteria, I think they will keep Gracie close because I really do believe they want her on the team if she earns it on TES.
    Mirai is no big favorite of the USFSA or U.S judges. I expect she and Gold will actually get about the same PCS at Nationals, their PCS werent even that far apart internationally this season anyway, and unless Gold skates poorly she will get the 2nd spot on higher TES no matter what Nagasu does.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliasJohnDoe View Post
    Why is the salchow such an obstacle for her?
    Alissa has historically also struggled with her 2A and it was really, really a scary looking jump in the last couple years working with Julie Berlin (before Jason D reworked some of her jumping technique). 2A and 3S are similar in technique and timing (when a skater starts making progress on single Axels, coaches usually start them on double sal and double toe as well because the mechanics are similar, although the picking and weight transfer are a little differnt on the toe loop than on the sal and Axel). She's never really "stepped up" on her entry on either of those jumps (her 2A is way better than it was but it still has skimmed the ice more than actually jumping up and under which is why it has never been an impressive jump for her).

  10. #40
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I'm thinking Gracie will get the second spot. I think the USFSA sees that she has a great future and can actually compete with the top jumpers in the world. I don't think the US judges will let Mirai beat Gracie on PCS alone; although I find Mirai much better on the PCS criteria, I think they will keep Gracie close because I really do believe they want her on the team if she earns it on TES.
    Mirai used to be better on many of the PCS criteria, but she's really mailed in a lot of her performances since the 2010 Olympics. Also, when she makes a mistake there is a noticeable difference in her speed (she slows down significantly -- see 2011 Nationals). Gracie has very well constructed programs (CH) and while she maybe doesn't always present them in a mature manner (rushing, not finishing off some things or skating through her music), she has great speed and variety in her skating (SS) and a ton of transitions (TR). If you couple that with difficult content and a mostly clean skate (which she is LIKELY to do), PE and IN stay in the same corridor as SS, TR, and CH.

  11. #41
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Mirai used to be better on many of the PCS criteria, but she's really mailed in a lot of her performances since the 2010 Olympics. Also, when she makes a mistake there is a noticeable difference in her speed (she slows down significantly -- see 2011 Nationals). Gracie has very well constructed programs (CH) and while she maybe doesn't always present them in a mature manner (rushing, not finishing off some things or skating through her music), she has great speed and variety in her skating (SS) and a ton of transitions (TR). If you couple that with difficult content and a mostly clean skate (which she is LIKELY to do), PE and IN stay in the same corridor as SS, TR, and CH.
    Mirai's doing better with carrying the program to the end this season. Last season if she made a mistake all of the air would go out and she'd skate flat and dead for the remainder of the program. She's had a performance or two this season where she made a mistake but got up and kept going, not dropping the energy the way she used to.

    Gracie's programs are nothing great in terms of choreography though she does have a number of decent transitions and big jumps...when she completes them which she hasn't really done all season. She had one strong SP and two mediocre LPs so far.

    IMO, TR is the only area Gracie beats Mirai in terms of PCS. Mirai is either slightly ahead or they are even on everything else in that category. Gracie has the better jumps, Mirai has the better spins and overall polish. Both of their SPs are decent but both LPs are rather meh. To me, Gracie and Mirai are on equal footing heading into nationals. Mirai had better finishes on the GP, but their overall total scores were very close (Mirai 176.68, Gracie 175.03). Both of them have not completed more than 4 triples in an LP this season. Mirai is prone to URs and edge calls on her lutz, while Gracie is prone to popping/doubling jumps and edge calls on her flip. Like I said, they're pretty much on equal footing.

    I think the second spot will go to the person who has the best performance at nationals.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I think the second spot will go to the person who has the best performance at nationals.
    I think the first spot will go to the person who skates the best at Nationals, and the second spot will go to the person who skates second-best.

  13. #43
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    I'm always disappointed and saddened when I read that the judges will not let something happen no matter how the skater performs. How honorable is that?

  14. #44
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    I'm always disappointed and saddened when I read that the judges will not let something happen no matter how the skater performs. How honorable is that?
    Sad but true. It's been that way for ages...it's why a lot of people outside of the sport don't view it as a sport. To a certain degree it's about the skater, their talent, and how they skate; but on another level there is a lot of influential politicking that goes on in skating among the federations and (as with nationals) within a federation.

    Not always fair but that's just the way it is. If a newer skater (like Angela Wang or Hannah Miller) came out and had the performance of their life complete with great jumps, spins and that spark, you can bet they would place no higher than 3rd this year. Why? B/c those top two spots need to go to the two skaters likely to place well at worlds and as of now that pool of ladies consists of Ashley, Mirai, Gracie, Christina and possibly Agnes b/c of their results on the GP this year. Placing well at worlds depends on how the skater skates on that given night but things like reputation and favor from the judges also factors in. Though both Angela and Hannah had good showings on the JGP this year, they are unknown on the senior level and therefore are not a smart pick to go to senior worlds. Regardless of how they skate those top 5 spots are pretty much locked up at this point and it would take a meltdown from a number of skaters plus some performance-of-a-lifetime performances from others in order to change that.

    Talent is important in this sport. But especially in countries like the US and Japan, you need a bit of luck too in order to break out of the ranks. It can be done though. I love Ashley b/c she started off as a 2nd/3rd tier skater and by sheer will forced her way to the top by doing what she needed to do to stand out. That's proof that with enough hard work any of these younger skaters can break out.

    Gracie is only one of the US's talented younger ladies (and IMO she's not even the most talented of the group). She's benefiting from the attention right now. The federation is backing her which means all she needs to do is show up and skate decently and she'll get the scores needed. For someone like Angela, Hannah, Samantha or the other lesser known US ladies, they will have to work twice as hard to get noticed b/c all of the attention is currently elsewhere. On occasion skaters do have breakout performances at nationals but I don't know the last time an unknown skater won nationals. The closest thing would be when Mirai won in 2008 but Mirai wasn't unknown. She'd won junior nationals and was 2nd at junior worlds the year before, and had won both of her JGP events and the JGPF that year. Besides, it was a transitional year with the previous year's top ladies nowhere in the mix.

    It's tough but that's how it is. Opportunity, timing, talent, luck and some help from your federation...that's the recipe for success in this sport.

  15. #45
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    ^ I think that is needlessly cynical. I believe that the judges at U.S. Nationals try conscientiously to do their jobs with both honesty and honor.

    Of course judges are only human. Reputation always plays a role in an "emperor's new clothes" kind of way. Good skating by definition is what the good skaters do. Therefore, when the person that we all know is the best performs, well, that must be good skating.

    On the other hand, speaking of 2008, the U.S. judges had no problem placing former world champion and reigning U.S. champion Kimmie Meissner behind Bebe Liang and Katrina Hacker, leaving it up to the international selection committee to decide whether to send Kimmie to worlds anyway, leap-frogging Hacker.

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