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Thread: Renewed Czisny ready to return to ice in Omaha

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Agreed. Czisny will be 26 next year; I don't see her returning to her 2010-2011 form after such a serious injury. Even if she got close to it, the current ladies' technical bar has been raised well above what Alissa can do.
    I disagree. Czisny's planned content could put her in the top 5 at Worlds, in that second tier behind YuNa/Caro/Mao. I think it is extremely unlikely that she would skate clean given her form the last few years but I don't think the sport has surpassed her peak level by any means.

  2. #17
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    Czisny has no 3/3 or even a 2a+3t. Many of the ladies (Yu-Na, Russians, Gold, Osmond, etc.) do have 3/3s. That is the technical bar to which I referred.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Czisny has no 3/3 or even a 2a+3t. Many of the ladies (Yu-Na, Russians, Gold, Osmond, etc.) do have 3/3s. That is the technical bar to which I referred.
    Perhaps, but aside from Yuna, a clean Alissa can beat all the others. There have always been ladies able to do 3-3's so the bar isn't any different than before. (Rachel did 3-3s, Ashley did 3-3s, Mao did 3-3s, etc.)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Perhaps, but aside from Yuna, a clean Alissa can beat all the others. There have always been ladies able to do 3-3's so the bar isn't any different than before. (Rachel did 3-3s, Ashley did 3-3s, Mao did 3-3s, etc.)
    and when does THAT ever happen?

    My gut tells me Czisny won't be a factor this season - I know weirder things have occurred before, but it's too much to come back from injury and have your FIRST competition be Nationals.

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    I don't think she has a chance. Her performances at Nats and Worlds last year were subpar and now she has an injury to get past. The bar certainly has been raised from even when she was at her prime.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I disagree. Czisny's planned content could put her in the top 5 at Worlds, in that second tier behind YuNa/Caro/Mao. I think it is extremely unlikely that she would skate clean given her form the last few years but I don't think the sport has surpassed her peak level by any means.
    This. There are only 6 age-eligible skaters who can consistently get their 2A/3Ts or 3/3s ratified: Yuna, Gracie, Kaetlyn, Elizaveta, Carolina, and Akiko. Akiko, Carolina, and Yuna can match Alissa on presentation, footwork, spirals, and can come close to her in spins. Those skaters have a clear advantage over Alissa if they and Alissa skate clean programs. The others--Gracie, Kaetlyn, and Elizaveta--all have deficiencies in spins, spirals, and overall presentation (they still look immature on the ice in spite of their impressive technical content) that somewhat nullifies their technical advantage. In 2010-2011 Akiko, Carolina, and Yuna competed along with Miki Ando (who had similar technical prowess), Rachael Flatt (who could also get her 2A/3T or 3/3 ratified at the time), Mao, etc. If Alissa was good enough to place fifth at Worlds that year--and let's be honest, if the judges hadn't lowballed her in the short program and on her component scores in the long, she would have deservedly snagged the bronze medal--she can do just fine in the 2013 environment as long as she skates clean programs.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I disagree. Czisny's planned content could put her in the top 5 at Worlds, in that second tier behind YuNa/Caro/Mao. I think it is extremely unlikely that she would skate clean given her form the last few years but I don't think the sport has surpassed her peak level by any means.
    Hmm isnt she planning on only 5 triples in the LP. Without the backing as U.S #1 anymore, with poor quality jumps that get little GOE even when landed, and with slow and catuious skating that limits her PCS to a certain barrier, she IMO would never place top 5 at Worlds today, unless it was a poorly skated event. If one wants a reference point look at the 2011 Worlds. She skated about the best she possibly could, apart from 1 fall in the LP (for Czisny a 1 mistake competition is pretty much her max), it was a really poor and weak Worlds, which 2013 and 2014 is expected to be a big improvement from, and she only placed 5th. That is when she had the backing as U.S number 1 which she clearly wont have now, even if she somehow made it to Worlds, and when the field was alot weaker, so one can only assume it would be alot lower than 5th today.

    People are questioning and were chastising me for thinking Nagasu would come as high as 8th at Worlds if she skates well and what makes Czisny any better than Nagasu at this point. She isnt a better jumper, it is debateable if she any better a spinner, she isnt anymore beautiful on the ice, she is much slower, and she is even more out of favor and out of any momentum or backing than Nagasu at this moment, especialy after a strong GP comeback season by Mirai. Her only advantage would be if she has better programs but does anyone really know that at this point. You sound as if you are thinking her scoring potential would be on par with Wagner and Suzuki right now, and I would be flabergasted with amazement if that were the case.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by amc987 View Post
    This. There are only 6 age-eligible skaters who can consistently get their 2A/3Ts or 3/3s ratified: Yuna, Gracie, Kaetlyn, Elizaveta, Carolina, and Akiko. Akiko, Carolina, and Yuna can match Alissa on presentation, footwork, spirals, and can come close to her in spins. Those skaters have a clear advantage over Alissa if they and Alissa skate clean programs. The others--Gracie, Kaetlyn, and Elizaveta--all have deficiencies in spins, spirals, and overall presentation (they still look immature on the ice in spite of their impressive technical content) that somewhat nullifies their technical advantage. In 2010-2011 Akiko, Carolina, and Yuna competed along with Miki Ando (who had similar technical prowess), Rachael Flatt (who could also get her 2A/3T or 3/3 ratified at the time), Mao, etc. If Alissa was good enough to place fifth at Worlds that year--and let's be honest, if the judges hadn't lowballed her in the short program and on her component scores in the long, she would have deservedly snagged the bronze medal--she can do just fine in the 2013 environment as long as she skates clean programs.
    mmmmhhhh you are vastly overrating Czisny to think Kostner and Kim would merely be matching her in PCS. Without the backing as number 1 U.S lady both will blow her away in PCS even if she had a great skate (well Kim always would have, she could compete with Kostner on PCS for a brief period while U.S number 1 and before Kostner became World Champion but not now). Her skating skills and speed are light years behind theirs, her choreography is usually much simpler, she skates with nowhere near the same confidence and presence even at her best, and all her other strengths in artistry they have as well. Oh yeah one is a legend and one is reigning World Champion, and one is likely in low standing in her own country at the moment.

    You can feel however you choose to about said skater but Wagner in 3 or 4 different competitions has scored higher than Czisny at her peak ever did now, and is currently the U.S number 1 so unless she imploded she would beat Czisny no matter what Czisny did, 3-3 or no 3-3. Suzuki would outscore Czisny in jumps and PCS easily, she tried 7 triples vs the 5 Czisny usually tries, does a 3-3 in the short, gets much more GOE on her jumps, skates much faster. Elizaveta if she held her form from her recent outings would always come out ahead just based on the huge disparity in TES between the two, even Czisny`s spins would not come close to making up the huge gap in jumping ability, and Elizveta`s PCS are improving vastly, while I am not sure why anyone would assume Czisny would get huge PCS at this point in time.

    2011 Worlds was a poor event, Miki Ando who is nothing but jumps won with no triple-triple try in either programs, one big mistake, only 5 triples, no triple flip. Ones placement would go down with comparable performances placed today vs that year, not up.

  9. #24
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    I wish Alissa the very best of luck at Nationals. No matter how she does I will be cheering her on

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    There can only be three medallists and two go to world\s. I understand how she doesn\t want to go out with a 22nd place at worlds but i do wonder if she has had enoug time to recuperate and train. As well, Wagner has clearly passed her and I think she may find it hard to stay ahead of Gold, Nagasu, Gao and maybe even Zhang. She has the potential to win a medal but with the lack of competition/training I am not sure if it isreasonable or likely for her to make the team to worlds. She could fluke out though but even on a good day how she does is like the flip of a coin.

  11. #26
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    Maybe Czisny's goal for this year is not to make the team, but gain some confidence back with a solid performance. How is her planned content known or is it just being assumed that it will be what it has been in the past. Haven't there been medalist this season with less than 5 clean triples?
    Last edited by Icey; 01-07-2013 at 08:01 AM.

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    I REALLY hope she skates a beautiful, emotionally satisfying program FOR HERSELF. Get a standing ovation and the response she is looking for and ....

    then she can retire from eligible competition and joint SOI to eventually disappear into skating oblivion.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    and when does THAT ever happen?

    My gut tells me Czisny won't be a factor this season - I know weirder things have occurred before, but it's too much to come back from injury and have your FIRST competition be Nationals.
    The point is that the bar for the sport hasn't really changed much in the last few years (since at least 2009). I do not expect Alissa to skate clean or match her previous level. But I also don't think the sport has surpassed where she was at her peak either; Alissa did beat last year's world champion last season. It does seem that more women are trying 3/3s now but we'll have to see if they can pull it off at Worlds.
    Last edited by drivingmissdaisy; 01-07-2013 at 11:44 AM.

  14. #29
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    Czisny's better performances:

    gold-medal SA 2011 FS: 3z+3t<<, 3fe<<-fo↓, 3lo, 3z<, 2s, 3lo+2t, 2a+2t+2lo

    Worlds 2011 5th place FS: 3z↓, 3f+2t, 3t+2t+2lo, 3lo, 3z+2t, 2a, 3t

    gold medal GPF 2010 FS: 3z+2t, 3f+2t, 3s, 3lo, 3z, 2a-fo, 3t

    gold medal SC 2010 FS: 3z+2t, 3f+2t, 3f, 3lo, 3t, 2a, 3t↓

    bronze medal TEB 2010 FS: 3z+2t, 3f+2t, 3t, 3lo-hd, 3f↓, 2a<fo, 1t

    Only one near-clean FS in the bunch (GPF gold medal), and she finished 3rd in the FS of that event.

    It's interesting to look at the layout of her FS over the 2010-2011 season. It seems she had a different jump layout for each performance, and in all she landed a 3-jump combination only once.

    ETA: Yes, Alissa did beat Kostner at GPF 2010. But Kostner has rarely been in top form in the early season. Carolina did come back to win bronze at Worlds 2011, beating Alissa.
    Last edited by chuckm; 01-07-2013 at 01:36 PM.

  15. #30
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    Pangtongfan - Alissa has attempted 6 triples in her FP for years now. Planned 7 last year until the 3 salchow wasn't panning out.

    Why is the salchow such an obstacle for her?

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