01-11-2013, 09:27 AM
And AC might never go to the olympics her last skates do not give great hope and as per usual lots of positive talk from her skating camp but no evidence as to how she is doing.
01-11-2013, 09:32 AM
Rejoicing in the land of Kwan
I think Shizuka had lovely qualities as a skater and she definitely deserved the win that night, but that program was nothing special IMO and is one of the more forgettable Olympic wins. She had lovely moves (her ina bauer, the Y-spiral) but the rest of her skating was pretty flat. She left me cold...then again the only time I really saw any kind of brilliance from Shiz was at worlds in 2004. She really let go and performed with emotion and it was wonderful. In Turin she gave a safe performance...you could tell she was skating with the intent of getting through the program without a mistake, which was smart b/c everyone else ended up splatting. Still, there was no spark to her performance and of the Olympics I've witnessed ('94, '98, '02, '06, '10) her winning performance stands out the least.
Originally Posted by FlattFan
Back OT, I wonder why Alissa is passing on the DSC show? I'm assuming she's really focused on training but this close to nationals I think people want to see proof that she's "back" though that interview she gave was very telling IMO. She was very careful with her answers and said a lot but didn't give any kind of indication of where she is with her jump content.
01-11-2013, 10:25 AM
Someone on FSU said that she's competing at the Fox Cities Invitational in Appleton, WI this weekend. http://www.vfsclub.com/events/competitions/
I think this is a grand idea -- good way to get her programs out there before Nationals. Not the same as doing a GP, but at least she'll have one competition under her belt.
01-11-2013, 10:27 AM
I agree--my comments were based on the scoring in '98. She got 5.8s and 5.9s in presentation--almost the same as Michelle.
Originally Posted by Skater Boy
01-11-2013, 11:02 AM
I'm probably biased, but I've never understood how Tara got such high presentation marks in Nagano. She did that triple-triple, which was impressive, but there is no way her skating could be considered on an artistic par with Michelle's. While I'm more than thrilled that Michelle seems to have used her silver medal as an incentive to remain in skating for far longer, giving us so many years of increasingly fine skating, I just can't understand how those judges could have sided with Tara's more immature presentation. Because she smiled more?
Well, I think of the years that followed--with Red Violin, Song of the Black Swan, and so on--as the gift to skating that arose from that evening. So the outcome benefited both skaters in the long run. It turned out that Tara was just passing through, but Michelle stayed with us and gave us the complete arc of artistic development.
Last edited by Olympia; 01-11-2013 at 11:06 AM.
01-11-2013, 11:12 AM
01-11-2013, 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by olympia
01-11-2013, 12:05 PM
It won't be much of a competition as only one other Senior lady is entered. It will just be a chance for Alissa to skate both her programs before judges.
Originally Posted by Mrs. P
01-11-2013, 12:05 PM
I think under 6.0 it was easier for judges to decide who they thought should win and then mark the programs accordingly. I imagine this is what happened in Nagano; Tara wasn't exactly worthy of 6.0 on the technical mark so a judge would have to make up the difference with a higher artistic mark to put her into 1st. It kind of makes the marks meaningless but I suppose I can't blame them because they judges can get boxed in if they give high marks to skaters who performed earlier. With Maria B left to skate, the judges would need to leave room above Tara/Michelle and between Tara/Michelle.
Originally Posted by Olympia
Last edited by drivingmissdaisy; 01-11-2013 at 12:23 PM.
01-11-2013, 12:25 PM
Rejoicing in the land of Kwan
To this day, I maintain that the only reason Tara won in Nagano was b/c Michelle skated first and the judges couldn't break out the 6.0s that early in the last group. The only other skater in that competition on par with Michelle artistically was Chen Lu and, in scoring a competition relative to the competition there, Michelle's performance (though not 100% as free as nationals) was worthy of a 6.0 in that field. Had Tara skated before Michelle I don't doubt Tara would have gotten the scores she received (she deserved them); but with Michelle skating afterwards and delivering the performance she did, I can guarantee more than half (if not all) of those 5.9s would have been 6.0s. Tara would have won the technical mark, which she should have, but Michelle would have run away with the presentation mark, which she should have, and she'd have won gold.
Bygones, I suppose...
01-11-2013, 12:28 PM
As I said, it's not a GP, but at least her first competition won't be nationals.
Originally Posted by chuckm
01-11-2013, 01:52 PM
I agree, I think the competition is just to get the programs out in a competition setting. Is it a Grand Prix? No. Is it better than having your first competition at Nationals? Yes. I wish Alissa the best of luck at both competitions
As for Tara & Michelle, as much as I disagree with the results, if it had any influence in Michelle staying around longer and giving us the beautiful programs that she did, Im thankful for them then.
01-11-2013, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Icey
That wasn't suppose to be a question. Alissa has been removed from the list of skaters to perform at Detroit.
01-11-2013, 02:10 PM
I dont really agree. Michelle's performance in Nagano, while excellent, was clearly not up to the standard of her Nationals performance, there was no comparision. Along with that these were the Olympics, not Nationals. As great as Kwan is in her long career I think she managed 5 or 6 total perfect 6.0s at World or Olympics (half of those in the short program, and never more than 2 per any program), if we exclude the 2004 Worlds where due to obviously tribute to 6.0 judgingfest and the 100 or so 6.0s awarded that week all 6.0s were a joke and must be disregarded (unfortunately even those truly deserved like Shen & Zhou's LP there).
Originally Posted by kwanatic
As for why it was judged as it was, the judges are told to use the scores to place skaters in the order they feel they should be in. Thus for those judges who already gave Kwan 5.8 technical, 5.9 presentation, and felt the technical edge was a bit more than the presentation one, or if not felt the overall vigor and energy of Tara's performance combined with the edge in content due to the combinations, should win, they had no choice but to either give Tara a 6.0 technically (hard to justify with her flutz, small jumps, and non exceptional non jump elements) or give 5.9, 5.9. It doesnt mean they consider the two dead equal on presentation neccessarily, but they are doing as instructed and using the marks to give the skater they feel deserved it on the day the win. Lets remember one thing, Tara did not get a higher artistic mark than Michelle from any judge, and lower from many of them, and keeping in mind back the technical score often was used as the base score for the artistic (now this part they are not instructed to do, but it is reality it seemed) all 9 of Michelle's presentation marks went up, many by .2, and none of Tara's went up while some going down. So the idea the judges favored Tara in presentation is a laughable suggestion, her win was based on their favoring her technically that night (justifiable) and finding the presentation side plausible enough to allow her to win based on her technical edge. Every single judge that voted for Tara was based on a superior technical mark.
Last edited by pangtongfan; 01-11-2013 at 02:14 PM.
01-11-2013, 02:16 PM
Isn't this suppose to be a thread about Alissa ?