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Thread: Japan's Takahashi to quit after Sochi

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    We all knew this was coming unfortunately. Once he made comments about almost retiring a couple of years ago I knew. It's feels like it did for me when Buttle and Lambiel left.
    I agree. It fills me with a sense of loss. I knew from the first time I saw Daisuke that he would end up on my Forever List. There are a lot of good skaters but very few who do that to me.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Check your fact! When did Chan ever win with 6 falls, or even 5 falls?! The worst time he won a competition was at 2010 SC with 3 falls in SP and one fall in LP (by the way, 3 + 1 = 4). Even in that competition, he lost SP and fell into fourth place. He would have won the overall competition at 2010 COR without violating the zayak rule. But even in that competition, he has had one fall in SP and 3 falls in LP. Again, it was only four falls in total.
    Considering all his mistakes at COR he had about 7 falls worth of mistakes and still very nearly beat a clean Verner who was one of the top skaters in the World at the time. Had he just had those 4 falls and not the other problems he would have won easily. At Skate Canada he won easily with 4 as you mentioned. Other events his margin of victories speak for themselves. So I would estimate he had 6 falls worth of errors to be safe to win, and needed a 7th to be in danger of losing if one of the other top skaters skated perfectly for about 2 years. Dont agree with me, I dont care, in hindsight alot of people came around to see I was right on that all along like I tend to be right on pretty much everything (the 6 or 7 fall rule isnt that way anymore, thank goodness, but it was reality for the longest time, and will be a large part of his legacy, of the negative sort, after he is gone).

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Considering all his mistakes at COR he had about 7 falls worth of mistakes and still very nearly beat a clean Verner who was one of the top skaters in the World at the time. Had he just had those 4 falls and not the other problems he would have won easily. At Skate Canada he won easily with 4 as you mentioned. Other events his margin of victories speak for themselves. So I would estimate he had 6 falls worth of errors to be safe to win, and needed a 7th to be in danger of losing if one of the other top skaters skated perfectly for about 2 years. Dont agree with me, I dont care, in hindsight alot of people came around to see I was right on that all along like I tend to be right on pretty much everything (the 6 or 7 fall rule isnt that way anymore, thank goodness, but it was reality for the longest time, and will be a large part of his legacy, of the negative sort, after he is gone).
    What is "fall worth of mistakes"? A fall has 1 point deduction. Is a mistake worth of one point deduction called a fall worth mistake? I could find many many one point worth of mistakes, or even a couple of points more to go with the "falls", in many many skaters, including Takahashi. Are they having double, triple... amount of their actual falls too?!

    If you want your idea to be legitimate, double standard should go away.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 01-08-2013 at 12:55 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I agree. It fills me with a sense of loss. I knew from the first time I saw Daisuke that he would end up on my Forever List. There are a lot of good skaters but very few who do that to me.
    I feel the same way, but I knew this day would come. Dai has been in the forefront of men's figure skating
    for such a long time and I will miss him for sure.

    Why is Patrick relevant to a thread about Dai's retirement announcement?
    It would be nice to visit a thread without any negativity for a change. Just saying.....
    Last edited by demarinis5; 01-08-2013 at 01:52 PM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    Why is Patrick relevant to a thread about Dai's retirement announcement?
    Then you have to see which post has introduced him to here? It's actually in the same pattern almost all the time on this forum.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 01-09-2013 at 09:44 AM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    What is "fall worth of mistakes"? A fall has 1 point deduction. Is a mistake worth of one point deduction called a fall worth mistake? I could find many many one point worth of mistakes, or even a couple of points more to go with the "falls", in many many skaters, including Takahashi. Are they having double, triple... amount of their actual falls too?!

    If you want your idea to be legitimate, double standard should go away.
    A fall on average under the current rules is on average 3.25 points. The very hardest elements are 3 falls lost in GOE and 1 point for the fall, while most are 2.1 lost in GOE and 1 point for the fall. That plus the possible lost GOE and PCS, but that is a seperate category and impossible to calcuate exactly. So 7 falls worth of mistakes is roughly 22 or 23 points. Chan at that Cup of Russia had:

    Fall on downgraded quad- 7.1 points
    Fall on triple axel- 4 points
    Fall on 2nd triple lutz, downgraded to a sequence (two triple lutzes with no combo)- 4.42 points
    double axel-triple toe late in program discounted (Zayak rule)- 8.14 points lost
    Fall on triple axel in short program- 4 points
    Total points lost directly by mistakes (excluding the possible lost GOE and PCS which no doubt in his case at the time was plentiful)- 27.66 points

    Wow I actually undervalued. On average it is probably more like between 8 or 9 falls worth of mistakes he had at that event, so maybe I should instead be saying he was guaranteed to win any event for 2 or 3 years with only 7 falls. Basically land 4 of your 11 jumping passes over the 2 programs and you are 100% certain to win even if everyone else skates cleanly. Or stumble out of all 11 but dont quite fall, dont violate any combination or Zayak rules, and you are still 100% certain to win if everyone else skates cleanly. In any case there shouldnt be anymore questions from you now.

    As I said that phase thankfully seems to be over, and thank goodness for the sport which was almost being killed entirely by Chanflation, even greatly offending Canadian skating fans who usually have a rooting interest in the sport but could never get behind Chan or skating in general at the time for that reason, that plus his loud mouth and disrepesct for his peers. Unfortunately for Chan the embarassing phase which was a disgrace to the whole sport will always tarnish his legacy in the sport, alot of which will be one of the most held up skaters of all time, based on those few years alone. Something even his most ardent fans are painfully aware of, hence their defensiveness whenever the topic is mentioned.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 01-08-2013 at 02:30 PM.

  7. #52
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I know that you were asked to explain the theory of falls, but this is really a thread about Dai's impending retirement :(

    Still, it is good to know that when you say x falls, you are figuring x*3.25 to x*4.0 points. It's an interesting way to look at the effect of the PCS edge over the pack that different top skaters have and have had in the past.

    Still, I want to have a good cry over Dai's impending retirement...

  8. #53
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    Although I am very sad that Daisuke will be retiring after Sochi, on the bright side, as someone who thought he would retire after Vancouver or after 2011 Worlds at the latest, I am still very happy that he has decided to skate for at least one more Olympic cycle after winning his Olympic medal and World title in 2010. Remaining at the top of the sport for so many years is difficult, but the fact that Daisuke was able to do so despite suffering a potentially career-ending injury in 2008 is just astounding. I would like him to win a second World title and the Olympic gold with the time he has left, but whatever happens, his place among the greats is already ensured with programs like La Strada, Cyber Swan, In the Garden of Souls, Blues for Klook, Eye, etc. The second world title and OGM will just be the cherries on top of the icing.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Although I am very sad that Daisuke will be retiring after Sochi, on the bright side, as someone who thought he would retire after Vancouver or after 2011 Worlds at the latest, I am still very happy that he has decided to skate for at least one more Olympic cycle after winning his Olympic medal and World title in 2010. Remaining at the top of the sport for so many years is difficult, but the fact that Daisuke was able to do so despite suffering a potentially career-ending injury in 2008 is just astounding. I would like him to win a second World title and the Olympic gold with the time he has left, but whatever happens, his place among the greats is already ensured with programs like La Strada, Cyber Swan, In the Garden of Souls, Blues for Klook, Eye, etc. The second world title and OGM will just be the cherries on top of the icing.
    This is a good point to keep in mind, though like Doris I just want to spend some time sniffling over the upcoming retirement. We could have lost Dai in 2008 from that injury, and somehow he gritted his teeth and brought himself back to the top of the pyramid: world championship, Olympic medal, GPF gold. So we're already ahead of the game. Lucky us!

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I know that you were asked to explain the theory of falls, but this is really a thread about Dai's impending retirement :(

    Still, it is good to know that when you say x falls, you are figuring x*3.25 to x*4.0 points. It's an interesting way to look at the effect of the PCS edge over the pack that different top skaters have and have had in the past.

    Still, I want to have a good cry over Dai's impending retirement...
    Sorry, as you are the moderator, feel free to copy and past that whole conversation into a thread titled `Chan and his falls from 2010-2012`or something like that. I definitely dont want to take the topic offstream from the sad retirement of the wonderful and underrated Takahashi.

    Now fully back on topic, I fuly expect, or atleast fully hope, Takahashi will end his career at the 2014 Worlds, rather then at the Olympics. Finishing his career with a World Championships on home ice would be fitting. I cant imagine him passing up that opportunity, no matter what he says, unless of course he wins the Olympics (very possible IMO, even if everyone is on the Hanyu for Sochi gold bandwagon now it seems) and has too much in the way of endorsements and other commitments to be able to train properly for it.

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