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Thread: Mao Asada and Kim Yuna Junior Years?

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    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Mao Asada and Kim Yuna Junior Years?

    Does anyone compare to Asada and Kim during their junior years. For example, when you see Mao skating at 14 at the GPJF you know this girl will be a force to reckon with. Kim Yuna also you could see she was going to be a star. Do you feel this way about anyone in the junior circuit now?

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    When Mao won the gpf in 2005 how could anyone have not been like Mao is the future?!?

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    They had one of the most amazing JGP to GP transitions record in ladies

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    They had one of the most amazing JGP to GP transitions record in ladies
    They also had an amazing transition from Junior Worlds to Senior Worlds. First year as seniors and they're already on the Worlds podium, which either one would have won had it not been for some huge mistakes (Yuna in the long, Mao in the short).

    I'm not seeing anything like that in the current field. Liza and Adelina were hyped up as the next great rivalry, but I'm doubtful either one of them will be standing on the podium at Worlds, let alone both.

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    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    They also had an amazing transition from Junior Worlds to Senior Worlds. First year as seniors and they're already on the Worlds podium, which either one would have won had it not been for some huge mistakes (Yuna in the long, Mao in the short).

    I'm not seeing anything like that in the current field. Liza and Adelina were hyped up as the next great rivalry, but I'm doubtful either one of them will be standing on the podium at Worlds, let alone both.
    This.

    I was very surprised to see both of them do so well. The fact that Yuna set WR score in SP on her sr. worlds debut really stunned me and made me pay close attention to her since so many promising junior-level skaters just don't do very well once they graduate.

    The thing is I'm just not seeing any promising junior skaters, OR even if they did well as juniors, they just aren't doing that well as seniors.

    As I mentioned before here and other forums, I don't really buy into a lot of hype about junior girls because you never know what kind of shape they're going to be in once they hit puberty. And now w/ the age requirement for the Olympics, you aren't going to see 14, 15 year olds winning OGM anymore.

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    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    And now w/ the age requirement for the Olympics, you aren't going to see 14, 15 year olds winning OGM anymore.
    Luckily! It was so sad to see Oksana/Sarah/Tara winning the Olympics and retiring immediatly after!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    They also had an amazing transition from Junior Worlds to Senior Worlds. First year as seniors and they're already on the Worlds podium, which either one would have won had it not been for some huge mistakes (Yuna in the long, Mao in the short).
    It's true that their transition was amazing, and well-deserved--both upped their game technically and artistically for the senior level. However, it should be noted that part of what aided their success was the retirement of the entire 2006 Olympics podium. The last time that an entire Olympics podium in the ladies retired after the Olympics was 1988--and even there the comparison isn't the same, since the 4th and 5th place finishers were eventual world champions Jill Trenery and Midori Ito. After every other Olympics, you had Olympic medalists/top 10 skaters who continued on and were competitive for world/Olympic medals throughout the following cycle--Nancy Kerrigan at the 1992 Olympics; Lu Chen after 1994; Michelle Kwan, Irina Slutskaya, Maria Butyrskaya at the 1998 Olympics; Sasha Cohen, Michelle Kwan/Irina Slutskaya again, Fumie Suguri, after the 2002 Olympics. New challengers obviously came in but veterans continued to win medals.

    At the 2006 Olympics, the other top 10 notable skaters all fizzled out for the following quad, with the exception of Joannie Rochette, who still took until the 2008-2009 season to become a top contender. The others just never challenged for the top: Kimmie Meissner and Emily Hughes due to injuries/puberty/college, Fumie Suguri declined; Sarah Meier and Elene Gedevanishvili had some moderate success but never had the consistency at worlds to become a medalist. Carolina Kostner is a unique case, but she's had far more success this quad than the previous one; she never truly proved to be a roadblock to Yu-Na and Mao during the 2006-2010 cycle. The only other skater who would become notable was Miki Ando, who had the disastrous 15th place at the 2006 Olympics, and really only had one big shining moment during the 2006-2010 quad at 2007 Worlds.

    So, long story short, Yu-Na and Mao earned their instant success on the senior scene, but they had a bit of luck too in that so many veterans from the 2006 Olympics retired or declined, and their fellow skaters who had competed with them at 2005 Junior Worlds were not able to keep up with them. I'm not sorry that it happened that way, of course.

    I think that likely, with so many veterans still hanging on for 2014 who will retire after--Carolina Kostner, Yu-Na, Mao--that post-2014 Olympics will be more like the post-2006 Olympics, and Liza and Adelina will then be able to (try to) stake their claim to the top. And young junior skaters like Elena Radionova and Karen Chen could have an easier time breaking through (though based on this year's JGPF, maybe not! Competition for every medal gets tougher every season).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    It's true that their transition was amazing, and well-deserved--both upped their game technically and artistically for the senior level. However, it should be noted that part of what aided their success was the retirement of the entire 2006 Olympics podium. The last time that an entire Olympics podium in the ladies retired after the Olympics was 1988--and even there the comparison isn't the same, since the 4th and 5th place finishers were eventual world champions Jill Trenery and Midori Ito. After every other Olympics, you had Olympic medalists/top 10 skaters who continued on and were competitive for world/Olympic medals throughout the following cycle--Nancy Kerrigan at the 1992 Olympics; Lu Chen after 1994; Michelle Kwan, Irina Slutskaya, Maria Butyrskaya at the 1998 Olympics; Sasha Cohen, Michelle Kwan/Irina Slutskaya again, Fumie Suguri, after the 2002 Olympics. New challengers obviously came in but veterans continued to win medals.

    At the 2006 Olympics, the other top 10 notable skaters all fizzled out for the following quad, with the exception of Joannie Rochette, who still took until the 2008-2009 season to become a top contender. The others just never challenged for the top: Kimmie Meissner and Emily Hughes due to injuries/puberty/college, Fumie Suguri declined; Sarah Meier and Elene Gedevanishvili had some moderate success but never had the consistency at worlds to become a medalist. Carolina Kostner is a unique case, but she's had far more success this quad than the previous one; she never truly proved to be a roadblock to Yu-Na and Mao during the 2006-2010 cycle. The only other skater who would become notable was Miki Ando, who had the disastrous 15th place at the 2006 Olympics, and really only had one big shining moment during the 2006-2010 quad at 2007 Worlds.

    So, long story short, Yu-Na and Mao earned their instant success on the senior scene, but they had a bit of luck too in that so many veterans from the 2006 Olympics retired or declined, and their fellow skaters who had competed with them at 2005 Junior Worlds were not able to keep up with them. I'm not sorry that it happened that way, of course.

    I think that likely, with so many veterans still hanging on for 2014 who will retire after--Carolina Kostner, Yu-Na, Mao--that post-2014 Olympics will be more like the post-2006 Olympics, and Liza and Adelina will then be able to (try to) stake their claim to the top. And young junior skaters like Elena Radionova and Karen Chen could have an easier time breaking through (though based on this year's JGPF, maybe not! Competition for every medal gets tougher every season).
    I often wondered about that... would Mao and Yuna have been able to rise to the top instantly, if Irina, Sasha, Arakawa and other top skaters had stayed? Would they have been able to beat the senior skaters and risen to the top? Maybe, maybe not... They did set the world records right away at the worlds 2007 (Yuna at the short and Mao at the long? Not sure if I am correct...), so that means, they were already pretty good by then.

    Maybe the Russian newbies like Adelina, Liza Julia, and other young skaters like Gracie, and Katelyn might soon rise to the top once the older generation retires.

    Maybe, if Elena Radionova or Karen Chen were older and more mature technically and artistically, they might do better than Adelina, Gracie, Liza, Julia, and Katelyn and beat the older skaters... I don't know... It is a interesting speculation, though...
    Last edited by bluesky85; 01-12-2013 at 11:09 AM.

  9. #9
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Does anyone compare to Asada and Kim during their junior years. For example, when you see Mao skating at 14 at the GPJF you know this girl will be a force to reckon with. Kim Yuna also you could see she was going to be a star. Do you feel this way about anyone in the junior circuit now?
    To get back to the original question (sort of), I looked at the first and second place winners of all the junior worlds competitions, and asked, "Where were they four years later?" Obviously, no duo compared to Kim and Asada who finished 1-2 at 2005 and 2006 junior worlds and four years later went 1-2 at the Olympic games and the senior world championships. But here are some other notable duos.

    1990 junior worlds. Yuka Sato and Surya Bonaly finished first and second. Four years later they repeated the feat at senior worlds.

    1994 juniors. Michelle Kwan won gold and Irina Slutskaya bronze (Irina won in 1995). Four years later (1998) they won gold and silver at senior worlds (and did it again in 2000 and 2001).

    At 2003 World juniors Miki Ando and Carolina Kostner took second and third. The next year Ando and Kimmie Meissner were first and second. All later became world champions.

    2011 world juniors. Adelina Sotnikova (1st) and Elizaveta Tuktamysheve (2nd). Future senior worlds and Olympics...?

    2012 World juniors. Julia Lipnitskia (1st) and Gracie Gold (2nd). Flashes in the pan or future champions? Radionova?

    Edited to add: Here is the junior skater that I thought (in 2002) would be world champion by 2006.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lcUcvHpPQM
    Last edited by Mathman; 01-13-2013 at 10:54 PM.

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    I didn't realize that there were that many Junior World medalists who did well in senior competitions. That's reassuring. Interesting statistics to look up. I notice that Kristi Y. won both singles and pairs in 1988, and she turned out pretty well, didn't she.

    Yukina Ota was indeed a lovely skater. Man, Japan has had an astonishing bevy of great singles skaters, both men's and ladies', and they show no sign of fading. (Go Daisuke and Mao!)

  11. #11
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    As we're talk to Olympic here, I just went back and found some interesting numbers. In 2005-2006 season, Mao was the GPF champion who beat the entire Olympic podium in that season while Yuna was the JGPF champion.
    Below are the marks they received in both completeion:
    Mao: SP: 64.38=36.30+28.08 LP:125.24=65.80+59.44
    Yuna: SP: 57.51=32.11+25.40 LP:116.61=63.66+53.93 (-1, time violation)

    In that season, Junior SP only allowed to do 3-2 instead 3-3 and Junior Lady's LP has one less spin then senior lady.

    Yuna's TES is second among both Junior and Senior lady even with one less element so I think She would also be quite completive if she chose Senior GP that year.

    Still I think age request is good for the sport because young girls may always have better jump and flexiability then mature women due to the weight different, they may simply be the best of world at age 14 or 15 by technique side, but it needs time for girls to reach a level to better understand the music, improve the details of the skating which matured sakters are better then young girl most of the time.

    We may feel sad for both girls who just missed 06 Olympic by every few days but to have them for the next four years and saw their improvment every year is also a great joy for a fan like me.

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