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Thread: 2013 Canadians Senior Pairs SP

  1. #31
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post

    Well it's true so deal with it. ;P
    Essentially this though I wouldn't have quite put it that way. Especially with D/C out, the quality of the top 2 US pairs teams who will compete (and who number 2 will be is a huge question IMO) is nowhere near the quality of D/R and MTM. I don't think that's offensive to say, personally. I think the same could be said but in reverse about the ladies competition (though USA and Canada have a similar amount of ladies skaters so it's not a perfect analogy). Canada (while they do have a firecracker in Osmond) has nowhere near the quality of US ladies generally right now IMO (though who will rock it on any given night in the USA can be unclear).

    I mean this in the least abrasive way possible, but if you think C/S and whoever US team 2 is are in anywhere near the same league as D/R or MTM, I believe that to be objectively wrong. That does not mean there is nothing to enjoy about US pairs skating or that it is not fun to watch and worth watching. It just means MTM and D/R (and IMO even L/S) are currently better than the current crop of US pairs.

    Also, I am an American.
    Last edited by tulosai; 01-20-2013 at 11:41 AM.

  2. #32
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I think what Doris said is being misunderstood. She said that the USA will have the more quantity of pairs but that CANADA has the better quality.

    I don't see the slight some have interpretted her statement to have.

  3. #33
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    ^^ No problema, like I said, opinions vary. IMO, there are "quality" pairs teams in the U.S. Certainly, Canada's top two teams are currently at a much higher level of rep, competitive experience, and competitive achievements than C/S, S/K and D/S, et al. As far as Denney/ Coughlin, they are competitive with Canada's top teams technically, even if not so much presentation-wise.

    I really enjoy Duhamel/ Radford a great deal because I feel and I'm inspired by their energy, determination and desire. They are an excellent team and their work with Julie Marcotte has helped lift them to the next level. M-T/M are quite good as well, though not one of my favorite teams at the moment. I also enjoy watching Beharry/ Jones, Lawrence/ Sweigers, and Purdy/ Marinaro. IMHO, Castelli/ Shnapir are competitive with 3 - 6 place Canadian pairs teams. Also, Scimeca/ Knierim are a new but quite good team for the short length of their partnership, and are improving fast. Donlan/ Speroff have superlative artistry and great potential if they are able to improve technically. All of the U.S. teams have "quality," even if they aren't all currently in the same league as the top two Canadian pairs teams.

    It's absolutely true that the top two Canadian pairs teams today are very highly regarded and highly accomplished and would score higher than the American teams, especially with D/C not at full strength and possibly not going to Worlds. However, it is a conceit to think that Canadian pairs have always been better or more accomplished than U.S. teams, and I think this is and has been a conceit held by many regardless of nationality. At 2010 Olympics, Evora/ Ladwig skated circles around the two Canadian teams, but were low-balled in the marks and placed behind those teams. As much as I used to enjoy Dube/ Davison the judges gifted them at that event in the scoring.

    Prior to the rise of D/R and M-T/M, I always felt that Canada's pairs teams post-S/P retirement were on a par with U.S. teams, but perhaps because of S/P legacy, Canadian pairs teams that immediately followed seemed to benefit from S/P afterglow, IMHO. Granted Dube/ Davison were very talented, but they never fully reached their potential before splitting up.

    It seems to me Tonichelle that DorisPulaski was responding to something you said or asked in regard to whether Canadian teams had "tanked," simply because there weren't that many competing. That was a strange question/ assumption on your part, IMO. In her response, DP may not have intended to slight U.S. teams, and she's right from her perspective if she feels the U.S. pairs competition won't be as exciting. However, once again, I differ with her reference to "quality" comparisons. And personally, I'm looking forward to the "excitement" that is sure to be present throughout U.S. Nationals this week in every discipline.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 01-21-2013 at 12:03 AM.

  4. #34
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    It's absolutely true that the top two Canadian pairs teams today are very highly regarded and highly accomplished and would score higher than the American teams, especially with D/C not at full strength and possibly not going to Worlds. However, it is a conceit to think that Canadian pairs have always been better or more accomplished than U.S. teams, and I think this is and has been a conceit held by many regardless of nationality. At 2010 Olympics, Evora/ Ladwig skated circles around the two Canadian teams, but were low-balled in the marks and placed behind those teams. As much as I used to enjoy Dube/ Davison the judges gifted them at that event in the scoring.

    Prior to the rise of D/R and M-T/M, I always felt that Canada's pairs teams post-S/P retirement were on a par with U.S. teams, but perhaps because of S/P legacy, Canadian pairs teams that immediately followed seemed to benefit from S/P afterglow, IMHO. Granted Dube/ Davison were very talented, but they never fully reached their potential before splitting up.
    I'm sorry but Canadian Pairs Teams have won 10 World Championships since 1950, and two Olympic Gold Medals. The American Pairs have won two World Championships in the same time frame, and the last American Pair to win a World Championship was Babalonia & Gardner in 1979. The US simply does not have the history or the tradition of a strong pairs program and you don't have coaching schools devoted to Pairs. The emphasis in the US is on singles skating and Pairs is seen as a last resort for failed singles skaters, whereas in Canada, skaters give up promising singles careers to skate Pairs.

  6. #36
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I think what Doris said is being misunderstood. She said that the USA will have the more quantity of pairs but that CANADA has the better quality.

    I don't see the slight some have interpretted her statement to have.
    BTW, I should say, this was about Nationals, and therefore had nothing to do with D/C, who weren't skating.

    And I am very fond of Castelli/Shnapir, who have made great strides this year. I hope they continue to surprise me. And that Scimeca/Knierim continue to improve. They have had a great debut at Nationals.

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