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Thread: Lysacek out of US Nationals

  1. #31
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Abbott if he skates well. Miner if Abbott doesnt. Pretty simple, has been that way for 2 months atleast now.
    And Joshua? He can't win?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    And Joshua? He can't win?
    He could but I dont see the judges giving him the PCS to win this year atleast. Who knows though.

  3. #33
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    Wow, just 3 more weeks and Evan would be competitive worthy? If that is true this is so sad - about the injury/ surgery and how close he is to being competitive worthy. but sarcasm or not why do I doubt this is anything but a pr comment. Give me a year and I will be ready for the Olympics. Of course I have to learn how to skate first

  4. #34
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    I knew this was coming I guess, but still...I am disappointed...

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    Same here, Deedee. You never know: Plushenko claimed he was coming back in 2010, and he certainly pulled it off. YuNa (fingers crossed) seems well on her way to an effective comeback. Of course I was hopeful for Evan. After all, it's not as if American skaters are so rich in champions right now. If Even rode in like a knight in armor and got us a spot on or even near the podium at Worlds, it would be more than any other U.S. man has done in this Olympic cycle.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    And Joshua? He can't win?
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    He could but I dont see the judges giving him the PCS to win this year atleast. Who knows though.
    I am a big believer in Joshua; if he skates like he did in Lake Placid but completely clean, he could win. However, he doesn't seem to attract the PCS boost at Nationals that others (Abbott, Miner, Rippon) do. I don't understand why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    You never know: Plushenko claimed he was coming back in 2010, and he certainly pulled it off..
    Plushenko is special. Whether you like him or not, you have to admit that he is. He has a will of iron and determination of steel; his mind can override his body to do what it needs to do. He burns for the competition and the glory and medals. He knows what it is to fight; from his very youngest days he had to fight for everything. I wonder if that has made a difference in terms of overall mindset, compared to the (relative) silver-spoon upbringings of Weir and Lysacek.

    I never took Weir's nor Lysacek's comebacks seriously from the start. Just to begin with, obtaining a quad at this age/period of career when one never possessed it in the first place is not normally within the usual capabilities of even a very good skater.

    Perhaps Lysacek knew he was facing the ingloriousness of not even getting a medal at Nationals, which was a distinct possibility IMO. If he's smart, this'll be the end of his competitive road (same with Weir). They're not contenders now and they won't be next year. Lysacek would be lucky to finish top five at the next Olympics, let alone defend his OGM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Plushenko is special. Whether you like him or not, you have to admit that he is. He has a will of iron and determination of steel; his mind can override his body to do what it needs to do. He burns for the competition and the glory and medals. He knows what it is to fight; from his very youngest days he had to fight for everything. I wonder if that has made a difference in terms of overall mindset, compared to the (relative) silver-spoon upbringings of Weir and Lysacek.

    I never took Weir's nor Lysacek's comebacks seriously from the start. Just to begin with, obtaining a quad at this age/period of career when one never possessed it in the first place is not normally within the usual capabilities of even a very good skater.

    Perhaps Lysacek knew he was facing the ingloriousness of not even getting a medal at Nationals, which was a distinct possibility IMO. If he's smart, this'll be the end of his competitive road (same with Weir). They're not contenders now and they won't be next year. Lysacek would be lucky to finish top five at the next Olympics, let alone defend his OGM.
    The other thing about Plushy is that he was one of the best jumpers in the world when he was in his prime, and he can still land quads despite his "advanced" age. I never understood why Weir and Lysacek even talked about their "comeback" except for some media attention since they were never that technically strong (I'm specifically talking about their ability to land big jumps). Comebacks are hard even for technically strong skaters who can do big tricks that earn big points. They're impossible for people who were never that strong even in their prime.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    The other thing about Plushy is that he was one of the best jumpers in the world when he was in his prime, and he can still land quads despite his "advanced" age. I never understood why Weir and Lysacek even talked about their "comeback" except for some media attention since they were never that technically strong (I'm specifically talking about their ability to land big jumps). Comebacks are hard even for technically strong skaters who can do big tricks that earn big points. They're impossible for people who were never that strong even in their prime.
    I want to say I know it sounds mean, so negative to "doubt" these comebacks or have such skeptism. And I know there are ie. Evan fans, Sasha fans, Johnny fans and I have no idea truly the heart and minds of these skaters and really why they are doing it. We would love it for pure motives but realistically I agree with so many of the comments. Sure we can dream but so many of them are stalled for many reasons - the body is not what it used to be or has been punished too long, mental issues, time has passsed and motivaton wanes, you don't tell the media but you do have psycholoical doubts. the wear and tear on the body etc. In the old prehistoric days your yes was yes and no was no to competitive skating as the rules were much more clear pro versus amateur. I will be pounded and beaten by Evan lovers but for some reason and I have no evidence I always thought Evan's so called comeback and it still may come was not all that realistic or perhaps honest. I know pure speculation. Unless Evan has made huge artistic strives I really am not sure why he would want to "tarnish" - he is a OGM and WGM - go out on top. There are many Evan lovers and most will argue Evan deserved his win over Plushy but the scores speak themselves - it was hardly decisive. I really think he is not so much pushing his body but pushing his luck. I guess karma is in th eeye of the beholder or "justice" but he maybe pushing his luck because I could see him well off the podium at the world level and even Nationals. Yes, he is a competitior but if he skates with errors he doesn't have Tak, Chan or Hanyu skating skills or artistry. A nice Vera Wang costume is going to only go so far. Yes, he could skate cleanly but he never ever had the magic of a super personality on ice Joubert, Plushy or Candelero, classical beautiful skating like Yagudin, Umanov, Peterenko or the artistry of Orser, Buttle, Lambiel. Yes, i freely admit this is just a feeling. I don't wish him bad but I wish he was happy with what he has done and move on. But I do understand it is his life.

  9. #39
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Same here, Deedee. You never know: Plushenko claimed he was coming back in 2010, and he certainly pulled it off. YuNa (fingers crossed) seems well on her way to an effective comeback. Of course I was hopeful for Evan. After all, it's not as if American skaters are so rich in champions right now. If Even rode in like a knight in armor and got us a spot on or even near the podium at Worlds, it would be more than any other U.S. man has done in this Olympic cycle.
    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Plushenko is special. Whether you like him or not, you have to admit that he is. He has a will of iron and determination of steel; his mind can override his body to do what it needs to do. He burns for the competition and the glory and medals. He knows what it is to fight; from his very youngest days he had to fight for everything. I wonder if that has made a difference in terms of overall mindset, compared to the (relative) silver-spoon upbringings of Weir and Lysacek.
    I agree with Nadia - on top of everything karne mentioned, Plushenko also has vastly better jump technique than Lysacek, who never had a consistent quad and whose 3A was more like a 3S. Mishin jump technique is very helpful to a skater, and Evan doesn't have it.

    In addition, there is no comparison between the current level of the men and either the current level of the ladies or the level of the men's competition circa 2009-10. The bar for the guys is insanely high at the moment.

  10. #40
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I don't know if he will compete at Worlds but he needs any B event to get minimum score for it.

  11. #41
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    I'm not saying that Evan is one of the best skaters ever by any means. Certainly on that scale, Plushenko way outranks him. But at this moment, with the state of American men's skating, if Evan could skate as well as he did in 2010 (and I agree that this is doubtful after a long layoff), he's the closest thing we have in this country to a world-class skater. Yes, Abbott is wonderful--in nationals and in the Grand Prix, sometimes. Yes, Miner and Dornbush are potentially good--but forgive me, they've been potentially good for some years now. Weir has passed his prime, and he never had a quad. Refresh my memory. Has any U.S. man gotten into the top 5 since 2010? Into the top 10? So if Evan came along and was actually good (which of course won't happen now, because he's withdrawn--but hypothetically speaking), he'd be a better bet than anyone else we could produce. He'd still have to stand in line behind half a dozen or so skaters from other countries, but at least he'd give us a chance for a top ten finish, especially if he showed his usual steadiness and competitive fire. But it's pointless speculation now. Besides, in terms of preference, the one I'm crossing my fingers for is Daisuke anyway.

  12. #42
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Has any U.S. man gotten into the top 5 since 2010? Into the top 10? So if Evan came along and was actually good (which of course won't happen now, because he's withdrawn--but hypothetically speaking), he'd be a better bet than anyone else we could produce. He'd still have to stand in line behind half a dozen or so skaters from other countries, but at least he'd give us a chance for a top ten finish, especially if he showed his usual steadiness and competitive fire.
    Abbott was 5th in 2010. I think in 2011, the Worlds team that was selected was not the strongest that could have been sent. Abbott did medal at 4CC that season. Even though he is not a very tough competitor, a top ten finish is certainly within easy reach for him.

    I think Miner and Dornbush have also shown that they can potentially compete at a high level, though we'll have to see how the fare at major events before passing judgment on that.

  13. #43
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    Just 2 words to Evan : CASH IN!!!!!

  14. #44
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    Yes, he is a competitior but if he skates with errors he doesn't have Tak, Chan or Hanyu skating skills or artistry. A nice Vera Wang costume is going to only go so far. Yes, he could skate cleanly but he never ever had the magic of a super personality on ice Joubert, Plushy or Candelero, classical beautiful skating like Yagudin, Umanov, Peterenko or the artistry of Orser, Buttle, Lambiel. Yes, i freely admit this is just a feeling. I don't wish him bad but I wish he was happy with what he has done and move on. But I do understand it is his life.

    Sums up how I feel about it! But I disagree that Evan, had he not withdrawn, could be the best hope that the US has. The man hasn't competed in how many years? And if he skated exactly like he did when he won the Olys he might not even place in the top 10. The world of men's figure skating has evolved alot since 2010. Quite frankly I'm glad this chapter is seemingly over. So much wishful thinking from Evan's fans!! I think - and I could definitely be wrong - that Evan hasn't found anything to replace figure skating. I dont' even know what he's done other than SOI since the Olympics. And at the age of 27 it's time he figures out what he wants to do with his life when he can't skate anymore. It's hard for any athlete to admit his time has passed - especially when so mych of their life has been dedicated to their sport. I agree with senatormls: CASH IN Evan, and move on.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    Sums up how I feel about it! But I disagree that Evan, had he not withdrawn, could be the best hope that the US has. The man hasn't competed in how many years? And if he skated exactly like he did when he won the Olys he might not even place in the top 10
    If Evan skated now as well as he did in the 2010 Olympics, he could still be competitive. Evan skated his ISU personal best at the Olympics, 257.67. That score now ranks 7th on the ISU list of personal best scores. The next highest US men are ranked 15, 16, 18, and 19.

    1. Chan 280.98 (2011 WC)
    2. Takahashi 276.72 (2012 WTT)
    3. Hanyu 264.29 (2012/13 GPF)
    4. Plushenko 261.23 (2012 EC)
    5. Fernandez 258.62 (2012/13 GPF)
    6. Kozuka 258.41 (2011 WC)
    7. Lysacek 257.67 (2010 Oly)
    ...
    15. Weir 238.87 (2010 Oly)
    16. Abbott 238.82 (2011/12 GPF)
    18. Minor 235.37 (2012 NHK)
    19. Rippon 233.04 (2011 SC)
    Last edited by SkateFan66; 01-20-2013 at 02:23 PM.

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