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Thread: 2013 Canadian Nats Senior Men LP

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Aside from Eric Millot and VDP, tell me one MAN who has landed 3 flip/3 loop?
    Ryan Jahnke

  2. #47
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    And you will have cut that list of men (and women) who have done 3F/3Lo down to only 1 when you add the filter : "While landing 3 Quads within the same program"

    That's a totally different ball game when the said element is done in conjunction with 3 Quads, a Quad/Triple and a Triple Axel/Triple Toe

    What would be outrageous is if the judges here chose to ignore these achievements and instead gave him a crappy technical score as pre-fixed reputation score that some people here seem to be doing.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I didn't realize Skate Canada was such a fan of Balde and not a fan of Rogozine.. why?
    Not sure about the not fan part but Rogozine hasn't been skating well this season at all. But he has the Worlds minimum score from last season.

    Balde on the other hand has been gaining momentum this season but has failed to reach the score so far. He's a much more captivating and entertaining performer and if both skate equally well Balde is probably going to receive higher PCS.

    So I would assume SC would rather send Balde.

  4. #49
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    watching the ctv broadcast... haha... it did occasionally sound/look like tracy wilson wanted to smack rod black for some of his statements about patrick chan

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by flaneur View Post
    watching the ctv broadcast... haha... it did occasionally sound/look like tracy wilson wanted to smack rod black for some of his statements about patrick chan
    Yeah, like that he might lose his national title, and he wouldn't win the Olympics with that program.. it's true that he probably wouldn't win the Olympics with that program, but it's not 6.0 anymore.

  6. #51
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    Eh, Chan beat Reynolds by 4 points in the LP. And this is Reynolds. Chan had a closer gap over his competitors than the ice dancers, and they have less opportunity for high totals (two perfect dance programs would be scored only slightly higher than Chan's LP at Nationals last year, for example).

    Chan's never losing the National title, but I hope he loses Worlds. A win at Worlds would basically guarantee that he loses the Olympics (due to the direction he's heading in).

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    Patrick better get his coaching situation figured out for next season. Having a modern dance teacher as your coach is not cutting it. He needs a tech coach. Kralll was great not just with helping Patrick with his jumps but his overall skating and approach to competitions.

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    Reynolds had well deserved huge TES with his 3 quads and big combos. Patrick had 2 quads, no 3A and a fall causing him to miss a combo. But his crown was never in doubt. His far superior SS and PCS had a quad combo equivalence over Kevin's, and his SP lead was another quad combo equivalence.

    Rod Blake was being an alarmist, due no doubt to the high expectation always associated with Patrick. During the last Olympic, Cynthia's 5th place finish was excitedly lauded while Patrick's 5th place was a bitter disappointment. At this Nationals, Rod proclaimed Kaetlyn's performance as very exciting and Patrick's not at all when they each had a fall and another mistake, with programs of very different levels of difficulties. There is always an extremely high standard required of Patrick vs every other skater such that any mistake induces criticism or alarm.

    eta. I hope they would invite Sandhu for the gala. It was so good to see him smile after his skates as he wished to enjoy performing in a competition.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 01-20-2013 at 07:14 PM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Patrick better get his coaching situation figured out for next season. Having a modern dance teacher as your coach is not cutting it. He needs a tech coach. Kralll was great not just with helping Patrick with his jumps but his overall skating and approach to competitions.
    I don't understand, Patrick Chan's Triple Axel has in fact become more consistent than years past. Yes, he doubled it in the FS but he has been landing that at a much better frequency and higher quality throughout this season. It's safe to say his Triple Axel did not regress after leaving Krall. As for the fall on the Triple Flip, that's the probably the first time this has happened to him in years, out of what? Maybe 30-40 Triple Flip attempts? To be sure, it was a freak fall but I failed to see what's so alarming about either jumps? Unless one can establish a case that Patrick Chan's Triple Flip is now a more unsecured jump after leaving Krall, what's the point of such alarmist post?

    Quite frankly, I failed to see what's the connection between these mistakes and his choice of coach. To imply causation between the two is like saying tomorrow will rain because I ate an apple tonight.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Reynolds had well deserved huge TES with his 3 quads and big combos. Patrick had 2 quads, no 3A and a fall causing him to miss a combo. But his crown was never in doubt. His far superior SS and PCS had a quad combo equivalence over Kevin's, and his SP lead was another quad combo equivalence.
    Chan's lead after the short program was 9.22. A quad combo is worth at least 10.7 (4T+1T). I agree that his win was never in doubt.

    Rod Blake was being an alarmist, due no doubt to the high expectation always associated with Patrick. During the last Olympic, Cynthia's 5th place finish was excitedly lauded while Patrick's 5th place was a bitter disappointment. At this Nationals, Rod proclaimed Kaetlyn's performance as very exciting and Patrick's not at all when they each had a fall and another mistake, with programs of very different levels of difficulties. There is always an extremely high standard required of Patrick vs every other skater such that any mistake induces criticism or alarm.
    1. Phaneuf was 5th at Worlds 2010, which was excitedly lauded because it gave Canada two spots. She was 12th at the Olympics.

    2. Of course the different standards that the skaters have achieved and are expected to perform at colours our responses. The extremely high standard we have for Patrick Chan comes from the fact that he's a two time world champion and a favourite to become an Olympic Gold medalist. The standard we have for Kaetlyn Osmond is that we hope she skates well enough to earn Canada two spots. Osmond is skating such that meeting that standard is well within reach. Chan is not skating as such the standard is well within reach. Ergo, the difference.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I don't understand, Patrick Chan's Triple Axel has in fact become more consistent than years past. Yes, he doubled it in the FS but he has been landing that at a much better frequency and higher quality throughout this season. It's safe to say his Triple Axel did not regress after leaving Krall. As for the fall on the Triple Flip, that's the probably the first time this has happened to him in years, out of what? Maybe 30-40 Triple Flip attempts? To be sure, it was a freak fall but I failed to see what's so alarming about either jumps? Unless one can establish a case that Patrick Chan's Triple Flip is now a more unsecured jump after leaving Krall, what's the point of such alarmist post?

    Quite frankly, I failed to see what's the connection between these mistakes and his choice of coach. To imply causation between the two is like saying tomorrow will rain because I ate an apple tonight.
    1. Patrick Chan landed more triple axels cleanly between 4CC 2012 and Worlds 2012 (all four of them) than he has since then (none at WTT, Japan Open, Skate Canada, one at CoR, one at the GPF, one at Nationals).

    2. He has popped more jumps this season than he has in the past; or had weak landings that prevented a combination.

    3. He has been called for UR'ing more than I can recall, though I wouldn't put that to a scientific test.

    4. He's missed (or messed up) a combination in every competition this season.

    I'm alarmed.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Chan's lead after the short program was 9.22. A quad combo is worth at least 10.7 (4T+1T). I agree that his win was never in doubt.
    I haven't looked at the official results or protocol but had an error in remembering from watching the TV coverage.


    1. Phaneuf was 5th at Worlds 2010, which was excitedly lauded because it gave Canada two spots. She was 12th at the Olympics.
    Another mistake on my part which I shouldn't have made. But I do remember it was not just because of the two spots she earned for Canada but more because of the low expectation as well as hope people had for her.

    2. Of course the different standards that the skaters have achieved and are expected to perform at colours our responses. The extremely high standard we have for Patrick Chan comes from the fact that he's a two time world champion and a favourite to become an Olympic Gold medalist. The standard we have for Kaetlyn Osmond is that we hope she skates well enough to earn Canada two spots. Osmond is skating such that meeting that standard is well within reach. Chan is not skating as such the standard is well within reach. Ergo, the difference.
    I understand the difference in expectation for each of them and the reasons. However, such subjective assessments should not be uttered as objective and real.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Eh, Chan beat Reynolds by 4 points in the LP. And this is Reynolds. Chan had a closer gap over his competitors than the ice dancers, and they have less opportunity for high totals (two perfect dance programs would be scored only slightly higher than Chan's LP at Nationals last year, for example).

    Chan's never losing the National title, but I hope he loses Worlds. A win at Worlds would basically guarantee that he loses the Olympics (due to the direction he's heading in).
    It is funny though, since you admited you dont want Takahashi to win Worlds, I think you said you dont want Hanyu to, and you are now saying you dont want Chan to. Are you hoping for a mini miracle like Fernandez winning Worlds, or a huge miracle which would be anyone else winning. You cant even hope for your Kozuka miracle as he isnt at Worlds, so what are you hoping for then, LOL!

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    It is funny though, since you admited you dont want Takahashi to win Worlds, I think you said you dont want Hanyu to, and you are now saying you dont want Chan to. Are you hoping for a mini miracle like Fernandez winning Worlds, or a huge miracle which would be anyone else winning. You cant even hope for your Kozuka miracle as he isnt at Worlds, so what are you hoping for then, LOL!
    Heh. I think I'd be happy with Fernandez winning, just for the sheer astonishment of it. I'd definitely be happy with Takahashi winning - he's really too good a skater to only have one world title. Huge miracle for Abbott, maybe? I'd be afraid for Takahashi if Hanyu won (in terms of politicking and what it means) - though Orser having the champion in both singles disciplines would be pretty amazing.

    It's one of those years where I'm not really rooting for anyone too hardcore, I guess. I won't even be upset if Chan won, since I uber him, though I do think that he would take it as an affirmation of his year even though he probably shouldn't (him winning Worlds this year would be like Yagudin winning in 2000 - the next season he was left behind by Plushenko. Him losing this year would be like Yagudin losing in 2001 - eventually he shaped up and dominated the next season).

    Am I making any sense?

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    I agree with you on one thing. If Chan wins Worlds this year he wont win the Olympics next year as he seems unconvinced anything is wrong. Even if he does not win Worlds this year he still might not win the Olympics next year, but he would atleast make some kind of change and training focus on certain areas which would give him a possible chance to win next year then. I cant bear the idea of Takahashi possibly having an inferior career to a skater like Evan Lysacek who owes his 2009 World and 2010 Olympic titles to Takahashi's mid 2008 summer injury anyway, so I hope he wins a 2nd Worlds for that reason mostly, as even with Evan's Olympic Gold, Takahashi's overall career would clearly be better if he has a 2nd world title to go with all his other achievements (all his top 2 medals at Worlds and the GP final and other international wins would trump Evan's career, argaubly do now even with only 1 World title and only an Oly bronze).

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