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Thread: 2013 Canadian Nats Senior Men LP

  1. #76
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    The lowest I can see Chan finishing at Worlds is 4th (he will probably finish higher, that is the absolute lowest I could see this year), so Reynolds just needs to place 9th or higher and Canada should be ensured of 3 spots in Sochi. The problem for Reynolds is he will probably have to skate as well as he did at Canadians just to finish that high.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    And you will have cut that list of men (and women) who have done 3F/3Lo down to only 1 when you add the filter : "While landing 3 Quads within the same program"
    What are you talking about? The list you are referring to is about Ladies and Junior Ladies who do/did 3F-3Lo and 3Lu-3Lo in competitions. How can it be cut to only 1 if Kevin is a boy I wonder. Apparently men and women compete in different disciplines in fs the last time I checked.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Nobody takes National scoring seriously period (though I agree that Canada seems VERY extreme compared to other nations, save maybe Russia)/
    Russian Nationals are actually the least inflated among all Nationals. The protocols are at your service.

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    Some people think Patrick skated poorly here? I disagree. A TES of 85 isn’t that bad at all. And some are worried about his 3A? Just look at his nice 3A in the SP (+2.17 GOE)!

    Reynolds really nailed his quads, especially his 4S. He and Fernandez have the best 4S now. Plus, Reynolds has better spins than Fernandez. I think Reynolds’ TES is high enough to challenge anyone in the world.

    However, like Fernandez, Reynolds also needs to improve his skating skills because he is still very slow, especially compared to Patrick who skated right after him. Reynolds also needs to work on transitions. Now he doesn’t really have a lot of transitions, even fewer than Fernandez I’d say. Judges prefer skaters like Patrick, Yuzru and Jeremy because they have transition-packed programs AND great speed at the same time. Reynolds lost points in PCS because of his poor skating skills and lack of transitions. McLeod is not a good coach in teaching skating skills and transitions, so I agree with those who think Reynolds should switch coach now in order to be a contender at major international competitions.

    I also enjoyed Nam and Mitchell. They’re two young boys with big potential.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Russian Nationals are actually the least inflated among all Nationals. The protocols are at your service.
    Having examined the protocols, I stand by my statement. If you'd like a debate, let me know.

  6. #81
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    Patrick's FS practice from Nationals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDLTI7X4ycM Managed the 3axel and 3flip- half loop-3 salchow there as well as both quads.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Having examined the protocols, I stand by my statement. If you'd like a debate, let me know.
    Which protocols/evets exactly proved according to you that RN is more inflated than CN?

  8. #83
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    I dont know about most years but I actually thought the judging at Russian Nationals this year was pretty reasonable. Fact is if Volosozhar & Trankov skate that well at Worlds they will likely score close to the 150 they got in the LP at Nationals, just look at the scores they get in other events with alot of mistakes. Kavaguti & Smirnov also will score in the mid 130s in the LP if they skate like that at Worlds, most had pretty much written them off, but if they can rediscover that level they can still contend for a medal. The women were great and worthy of the marks they got, Elizaveta T. is more likely to score higher 60s than Osmond 70+ for the short programs each did at Nationals IMO (I think Elizaveta would actually come out slightly ahead since her triple-triple combo is much harder). The men marks werent outrageous either, although Voronov was a bit high but he really skated his best ever performances thus far probably. It was nothing like 2010 where you had ridiculous scores like Plushenko over 100 points for his bare bones no choreography SP, and Voronov 95 points in the short program.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Which protocols/evets exactly proved according to you that RN is more inflated than CN?
    Plushenko's Olympic year short vs his Nationals SP (in one component score, there is a 2.2 point difference alone); the dance judging in general over the years.

    Don't get me wrong. If you said which was worse, 9 times out of 10, it's Canadian Nationals. But they've got competition for the title. And realistically, Canada's gotten worse. But as compared to international scoring, it's not as terrible as we'd like to think (Canadian skaters are overscored internationally is a different debate, of course).

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Plushenko's Olympic year short vs his Nationals SP (in one component score, there is a 2.2 point difference alone); the dance judging in general over the years.

    Don't get me wrong. If you said which was worse, 9 times out of 10, it's Canadian Nationals. But they've got competition for the title. And realistically, Canada's gotten worse. But as compared to international scoring, it's not as terrible as we'd like to think (Canadian skaters are overscored internationally is a different debate, of course).
    Olympic year? Year, let's talk Vancover . Hardy an argument. Russian Nationals were judged more than sober. Just the freshest judging in dances at Euro for comparison is at your service. Competitions at CN? What a joke. Voir and Chan, and pretty much Osmand as well were locked for gold in advance.

  11. #86
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    Euros is less inflated as its scoring almost mirrors what is the maxmum scored at skaters Nationals
    4CC can be a bit inflated though not that much as Canadian Nationals ? D/R scoring 200+ and Osmond with 200+ that would beat Yuna's score

    otoh, Reynolds should have won gold not Chan

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Plushenko's Olympic year short vs his Nationals SP (in one component score, there is a 2.2 point difference alone); the dance judging in general over the years.

    Don't get me wrong. If you said which was worse, 9 times out of 10, it's Canadian Nationals. But they've got competition for the title. And realistically, Canada's gotten worse. But as compared to international scoring, it's not as terrible as we'd like to think (Canadian skaters are overscored internationally is a different debate, of course).
    if Chan does the same LP at Worlds he will score below 170. I have no doubt of that based on the scores this season. The worst of all though was the scores of Gilles & Poirier, who will barely get over 90 for the same FD at Worlds. 2nd worst was Osmonds scores but I can see Skate Canada super excited about having a lady contender and huge hope for the future now, so I will give them a pass on that, but dont expect the same scores at Worlds unless she skates lights out in the LP (nothing she could do in the short to get a score like that bar adding a triple lutz-triple toe combo or harder). As excited as I was for our top 2 pairs I also doubt the judges will score them even above 130 in the LP for the same skates at Worlds, although IMO only due to reputation as unlike those others they IMO deserved the marks they got but wouldnt get it at Worlds due to protocal.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 01-23-2013 at 02:14 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Olympic year? Year, let's talk Vancover . Hardy an argument. Russian Nationals were judged more than sober. Just the freshest judging in dances at Euro for comparison is at your service. Competitions at CN? What a joke. Voir and Chan, and pretty much Osmand as well were locked for gold in advance.
    Heh. So basically, you're saying Vancouver was judged incorrectly. As I pointed out, that's not actually an argument you can make when discussing national inflation, as national inflation is compared to international standards. But you know that, just like you know that giving Plushenko a 9 for transitions (and nothing below a 9 for PCS for that SP) is not sober judging. But I'll let it pass too, I'm just that generous.

    As for competition at Canadian Nationals, I will agree - they were locks. But the fact is that they were the best, and everyone knew it going into the competition. I'd point out that V/T absolutely routed the competition at Russian Nationals, had huge scores during the season for less-than-stellar skates as well - were they not locks? The difference, of course, is that K/S should be treated better than they are by their own federation but have been utterly dismissed. People pretended that Plushenko might lose, of course, but that certainly didn't come to pass.

    ptf, I'm not convinced Chan would score below 170 for the same LP at Worlds, though he would definitely deserve to. D/R have scored 124 at TEB with a fall and two level three elements. They get those to level four and don't fall, they stare 130 in the face. Osmond and G/P's scores were obvious examples of overscoring.

    4CC is definitely overscored compared to Euros.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    just like you know that giving Plushenko a 9 for transitions (and nothing below a 9 for PCS for that SP) is not sober judging. But I'll let it pass too, I'm just that generous.
    That's not a generosity. It sounds more like bitterness that Plu gets over 9s in PCS from internationals panels too like at last year Euro, and somehow doesn't zamboni the ice to use PCS to top . And no. If by "you" you mean "me" personally, then I have no idea what you are talking about. No need to use my persona to back up your opinion when it's definitely not the case. It looks weak and doesn't add any accountability to your statement.
    I'd point out that V/T absolutely routed the competition at Russian Nationals, had huge scores during the season for less-than-stellar skates as well - were they not locks? The difference, of course, is that K/S should be treated better than they are by their own federation but have been utterly dismissed. People pretended that Plushenko might lose, of course, but that certainly didn't come to pass.
    V/T deservely won with the huge advantge over K/S who are clearly having not their best season. Are you saying that K/S should have won RN? Oh dear, don't be ridiculos. Pairs were actually the only event at RN that was predictable. What do you mean by "they were the best"? You mean Plu wasn't and therefore shouldn't have won? Nice joke. As for Dances and Ladies, no one knew till the last minute what the podium will be. RN was fair play while in CN Canadians are probably the only one judging by this thread who think that Kevin didn't deserve gold.

  15. #90
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    Patrick Chan's Axels
    The protocols show that he did two double axels and neither one of them were in combination. The rules state that you can not repeat a jump unless it is in combo. Why was he allowed credit for both of those? I suppose one of them was probably planned to be a combo but it wasn't. Anyone know the answer or do I have that all wrong?

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