Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Averbukh on Russian skaters and Euros

  1. #1
    Keepin' it real gsk8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    2,129

    News Averbukh on Russian skaters and Euros

    'As usual, Russian figure skaters will win many medals at the European Championship'

    More

  2. #2
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,480
    This interview is also in Russian in some slightly different variants.
    http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/582962 (Russian) for example.
    He told "Level of Euro is critically low, Euro lost its meaning long ago".

    Some people (me, for example) refuse.
    Two of four World Champions, about a half of Worlds Top 12 and about a half of World Medalists are from Europe and took place in Euro.
    Yes, level of Euro is some lower than many years ago, when it was very close to level of Worlds. Now are many very good skaters from USA, Japan, China, Korea.
    But Euro for now is a high level competition- not that "means nothing".

    Leaders at Four Continents are very strong, but average level of Euro competitors is still some higher than Four Continents.
    And nobody says that Four Continents is low level, not serious competition.
    Last edited by AlexRus; 01-22-2013 at 01:22 PM.

  3. #3
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,818
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    This interview is also in Russian in some slightly different variants.
    http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/582962 (Russian) for example.
    He told "Level of Euro is critically low, Euro lost its meaning long ago".

    Some people (me, for example) refuse.
    Two of four World Champions, about a half of Worlds Top 12 and about a half of World Medalists are from Europe and took place in Euro.
    Yes, level of Euro is some lower than many years ago, when it was very close to level of Worlds. Now are many very good skaters from USA, Japan, China, Korea.
    But Euro for now is a high level competition- not that "means nothing".

    And average level of Euro competitors is still some higher than Four Continents.
    But nobody says that Four Continents is low level, not serious competition.
    I can see where Averbukh is coming from. Last year was considered a good year for Europe at Worlds because at the recent 2010 Olympics, none of the Olympic Champion was from Europe. Despite Kostner winning Gold in Ladies last year, the sad truth is European ladies have been dominated by Asian women for the last several years to the point that it was hard even for a European to crack top 6 at Worlds. Besides Kostner and Korpi, the European ladies are very weak compared to their Asian and North American counterparts and this year, Europe may again find itself off the podium in ladies at Worlds given the fierce competition there and the return of Yu Na Kim. Looking at the men, the story is very similar. Despite having retired for many years, winning the Euro still felt like a cakewalk for Plushenko because he only got a handful of real challengers. This year might be slightly less so with the young Javier Fernandez maturing into his prime but to see such low intensity in men's competition is in a way sad. And if we overlook these two, there is really nobody there left at the Euro men competition, except perhaps Brezina if he is on (that's a big if) but that's about it. The rest would struggle to even make top 10 at worlds.

    Finally, from Averbukh's perspective, which is likely more focused on Ice Dance as this was his discipline - part of it is probably lamentation on his part. I find that the older generation of Russians still have a strong cold war mentality - certainly that's obvious on Mishin. Averbukh is probably lamenting the days where dance was dominated by Europeans and where the results of Europeans could pretty much be written as the eventual World results. That was true for a very long time for decades, since USSR and for many years Russia, the only competition at Worlds will occasionally come from one Canadian dance team who would usually settle for the Bronze. But when Averbukh and Lobacheva lost the World title to Bourne/Kraatz in 2003, the dance world was no longer the same anymore since. It was the first time a non-European team won Ice Dance at Worlds and since then, a whole truck of succeeding American and Canadian dance teams started to push Russians and Europeans out of the Dance podium to the point that by 2011 - in Moscow - the World podium in Ice Dance didn't have any Russian or European teams. You have to wonder if in some way, Averbukh is blaming himself for losing the dynasty?

  4. #4
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,530
    He is right about pairs. China has pang and Tony but they are not so good right now except on pcs.

    His comment on plushenko and Joubert was kind of funny

    The kovtun euro experiment for worlds is obvious!! Plushenko and kovtun like no one even mentions voronov. More people mention menshov!

    Dance is jus total UGH because so much drama in Russia but it's all locked up for north americans now - noncompettmin- but if b/s doesn't win euros it will be the worst black eye ever for b/s - Just the worst hin ever!
    Last edited by gmyers; 01-22-2013 at 01:41 PM.

  5. #5
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,530
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I can see where Averbukh is coming from. Last year was considered a good year for Europe at Worlds because at the recent 2010 Olympics, none of the Olympic Champion was from Europe. Despite Kostner winning Gold in Ladies last year, the sad truth is European ladies have been dominated by Asian women for the last several years to the point that it was hard even for a European to crack top 6 at Worlds. Besides Kostner and Korpi, the European ladies are very weak compared to their Asian and North American counterparts and this year, Europe may again find itself off the podium in ladies at Worlds given the fierce competition there and the return of Yu Na Kim. Looking at the men, the story is very similar. Despite having retired for many years, winning the Euro still felt like a cakewalk for Plushenko because he only got a handful of real challengers. This year might be slightly less so with the young Javier Fernandez maturing into his prime but to see such low intensity in men's competition is in a way sad. And if we overlook these two, there is really nobody there left at the Euro men competition, except perhaps Brezina if he is on (that's a big if) but that's about it. The rest would struggle to even make top 10 at worlds.

    Finally, from Averbukh's perspective, which is likely more focused on Ice Dance as this was his discipline - part of it is probably lamentation on his part. I find that the older generation of Russians still have a strong cold war mentality - certainly that's obvious on Mishin. Averbukh is probably lamenting the days where dance was dominated by Europeans and where the results of Europeans could pretty much be written as the eventual World results. That was true for a very long time for decades, since USSR and for many years Russia, the only competition at Worlds will occasionally come from one Canadian dance team who would usually settle for the Bronze. But when Averbukh and Lobacheva lost the World title to Bourne/Kraatz in 2003, the dance world was no longer the same anymore since. It was the first time a non-European team won Ice Dance at Worlds and since then, a whole truck of succeeding American and Canadian dance teams started to push Russians and Europeans out of the Dance podium to the point that by 2011 - in Moscow - the World podium in Ice Dance didn't have any Russian or European teams. You have to wonder if in some way, Averbukh is blaming himself for losing the dynasty?
    Why should he blame himself for all Russian coaches and political power in dance moving to north America to benefit north Americans?! But i Can see how he could be like His team was not strong enough in 2003 to prevent b/k from winning and that was really the beginning of the end even if n/k won later world and Olympic titles by tiny margins and d/s won in 2009 but 2009 was the end of Russian success in dance for teams winning events. Not coaching.

  6. #6
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,818
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Why should he blame himself for all Russian coaches and political power in dance moving to north America to benefit north Americans?! But i Can see how he could be like His team was not strong enough in 2003 to prevent b/k from winning and that was really the beginning of the end even if n/k won later world and Olympic titles by tiny margins and d/s won in 2009 but 2009 was the end of Russian success in dance for teams winning events. Not coaching.


    When USSR broke apart, Russian retained all its top coaches like Moskvina, Tarasova and Mishin. It is the nobody back then like Zueva who was left to starve to death with her young son if she didn't move. In a way, Russia forced this exodus of young talent because it didn't see them as important enough to retain. You can argue some of the more established one like Dubova was allowed to move to North America but that was in part due to their internal political struggle since Dubova and Tarasova couldn't stand each other. But what really created a Renaissance in North American Ice Dance today was really those young & unknown coaches like Marina Zueva who started by coaching little kids when she immigrated to Canada.

  7. #7
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,530
    And averbukh isn't to blame for any of that! I think his responsibility is that he was the team that lost to b/k. But anyway a lot of it was just about more money that united states or Canada could provide even if they wanted them to stay in Russia! A lot of the people like krylova just wanted to go where money was or more opportunity. Russia was collapsing anyway in the early 90s and people kept leaving when Russia was more stabilized anyway- like krylova. And you have so many in he us. More famous Russian ice Dancers like world medalists live in the us than Russia. And they train Americans more than Russians or Canadians too.

  8. #8
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,889
    Personally I don't like Averbukh!
    Last edited by plushyfan; 01-22-2013 at 03:39 PM.

  9. #9
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Greater Boston, MA
    Posts
    768
    I love interviews with Russian experts--they're so honest!! I found his comments interesting, especially about Ilinykh & Katsalapov. He seems to suggest they've drunk their own kool-aid and perhaps think they're so good they don't have to train hard?? :-) Wonder if it's true!!

  10. #10
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,336
    Last year, they hurried up with interviews about becoming the first pair. I understand, it is their youth and inexperience, but they need someone to pour cold water over them
    Morozov is really not the right person to do it!

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,187
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    When USSR broke apart, Russian retained all its top coaches like Moskvina, Tarasova and Mishin. It is the nobody back then like Zueva who was left to starve to death with her young son if she didn't move.
    Eh? What are you talking about? Zueva was a coach/choreographer of Gordeeva/Grinkov. They didn't leave her "starve to death" and moved together to USA because there was better money involved at that point. Sometimes better opportunity- Moskvina, Tarasova also worked in the US for sometime to your knowledge. Then moved back to Russia when things got to more or less to normal.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,187
    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Personally I don't like Averbukh!
    Averbuch contributed more than anyone else in making clownish TV progs from fs instead of providing real fs shows for the audience in Russia. Plu's agent Zakaryan is probably the only one in the country thanks to whom people can see real skating in shows and not some usual TV fluff on the ice.

  13. #13
    Custom Title figuristka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Finland & Canada
    Posts
    1,366
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post


    When USSR broke apart, Russian retained all its top coaches like Moskvina, Tarasova and Mishin. It is the nobody back then like Zueva who was left to starve to death with her young son if she didn't move. In a way, Russia forced this exodus of young talent because it didn't see them as important enough to retain. You can argue some of the more established one like Dubova was allowed to move to North America but that was in part due to their internal political struggle since Dubova and Tarasova couldn't stand each other. But what really created a Renaissance in North American Ice Dance today was really those young & unknown coaches like Marina Zueva who started by coaching little kids when she immigrated to Canada.
    Zoueva wasn't unknown when she moved to Canada. She continued to coach Gordeeva and Grinkov after she moved. She also did choreography for alot of top Canadian skaters. She wouldn't have only coached kids. Iam glad she moved or she may never have worked with Virtue and Moir. I do wonder how her former husband is? I had lessons from him when i was younger. Anyone know if he still coaches? Thought he went back to russia as saw him in the k&c a few years ago at Euros.

  14. #14
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,179
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post


    When USSR broke apart, Russian retained all its top coaches like Moskvina, Tarasova and Mishin. It is the nobody back then like Zueva who was left to starve to death with her young son if she didn't move. In a way, Russia forced this exodus of young talent because it didn't see them as important enough to retain. You can argue some of the more established one like Dubova was allowed to move to North America but that was in part due to their internal political struggle since Dubova and Tarasova couldn't stand each other. But what really created a Renaissance in North American Ice Dance today was really those young & unknown coaches like Marina Zueva who started by coaching little kids when she immigrated to Canada.
    Not true. Many of the Russian coaches moved to the US because the collapse of the Soviet Union brought about political, social and economic instability. What resulted was a severe economic crisis leading to a huge drop in the standards of living at the time, which meant that there was no money to fund the Soviet sports system either publicly or privately. Skaters and their coaches were suddenly faced with a dwindling number of training facilities and some very poor ice conditions at the few rinks that were left because there simply wasn't enough money at the time. Even the world-famous Yubileyny Sports Palace was beset by extremely poor conditions and was on the verge of shut-down. Both unknown and top coaches (including Moskvina and Tarasova, FYI) moved to the US because that was where they could train their skaters properly and actually make a decent living away from all the political and economic turmoil that Russia was going through. It's ridiculous to say that the Russian Fed forced an exodus of their young talent--I bet they would have kept them in Russia if they could. But the Russians just couldn't afford to pay the coaches or provide proper training facilities at that particular time of crisis.
    Last edited by evangeline; 01-22-2013 at 11:21 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •