2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP | Page 20 | Golden Skate

2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Poor caroline, how she finds the fortitude to continue is beyond me. All of the PCS's were in the 6 point range. Of course, even Gao had a few 6's too.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Agnes got +1,8 for her 3T+3T... That means she recieved (4)four +3 and 3(three) +2. Also, she got +1,4 for her Lutz.

Sometimes, Agnes reminds me of Kostner(my favorite skater). Tall, fast, massive jumps, great basic skills and edges, nice music choices... I think that Agnes will be the "new Kostner".

She has that potential for me. She needs to get over her headcaseness though, and she can be the American version of Kostner. Kostner was winning World medals even when she was a headcase but I doubt they will be that generous to a U.S skater who makes mistakes.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Well, I definitely don't think this SP does her justice at all.

Even so, Agnes being in front of her is nonsense. I do like Mirai's FS. Go Mirai!!!!! We love you!

Well, I can see why Agnes is placed above Mirai despite the fall on the 2A. The fall really only cost her about 2-2.5 points in terms of GOE (including both actual loss and opportunity loss), the higher BV of her Triple Lutz vs. Mirai's Triple Loop compensated about half of that difference already. Then, Mirai lost some levels on one spin and the step sequence so, the difference is pretty much erased, and then some.

The bottom line is the call could go either way and Agnes being in the front is not a nonsense, just a close call.
 

Orange Cat

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
She traveled quite a bit before centering her layback. Perhaps that was it?

*rewatches the video*

Oh. She does travel a bit. Point taken.

Still, considering where she was last year, I think Mirai's in a pretty damn good position. I hope she holds it all together for the FS!!
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Then Agnes also got higher PCS, in part due to skating last while Mirai skated very early. This latter would have been far worse under 6.0 than under CoP. So for anyone who wants to rescore this using 6.0 - know that skating early used to be the kiss of death for many skaters considering that in the past, skating order was a total random draw and the design of 6.0 forced judges to save marks or else risk running out room for their ordinals.

Yep, Maria Butyrskaya famously burst into tears when she drew first to skate in the SP at the 1998 Olympics in Nagano...she knew she would have to work hard for every ordinal.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Mrs. P's protocal breakdown THE TES.

Base Value (as executed):
Agnes 30.43
Courtney 29.93
Yasmin 29.93
Christina 29.21
Mirai 28.63
Angela 28.30
Gracie 27.70
Ashley 27.64
Samantha 27.21
Hannah 25.86
Ashley C. 23.90
Caroline 23.50

GOE
Ashley 7.10
Mirai 6.10
Agnes 5.51
Courtney 4.14
Samantha 3.53
Hannah 2.77
Christina 2.72
Yasmin 2.21
Ashley C. 1.38
Gracie 1.04
Angela .64
Caroline .20

TES
Agnes 35.94
Ashley 34.74
Mirai 34.73
Courtney 34.07
Yasmin 32.14
Christina 31.93
Samantha 30.74
Angela 28.94
Gracie 28.74
Hannah 28.63
Ashley C. 25.28
Caroline 23.70

Jumps
Mirai 20.02
Courtney 19.79
Agnes 19.53
Ashley 19.44
Christina 18.72
Samantha 17.04
Yasmin 16.17
Angela 14.93
Gracie 13.70
Ashley C. 12.87
Hannah 12.39
Caroline 9.67 (YIKES! -- She scored less on all her jumps than Agnes did on one jumping pass (3T-3T = 10))

Non Jumps
Agnes 16.41
Hannah 16.24
Yasmin 15.97
Ashley 15.30
Gracie 15.04
Mirai 14.71
Courtney 14.28
Caroline 14.03
Angela 14.01
Samantha 13.70
Christina 13.21
Ashley C. 12.41
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Mrs. P, Zawadski scored 10 points on her triple triple - she reversed them according to icenetwork.

Mirai has actually done pretty decently on the international stage- excluding the highlights of 2010, she's actually done ok with 4CC and the SGP. I'm going off the top of my head here, but hasn't Mirai won more medals on the SGP (read 2) than Agnes (0)?

I don't have a live stream so I can't compare the two in this competition... but having watched that youtube clip- how on earth did Mirai only get .79+ GOE on her final layback spin?? Are the judges blind??

Agnes has won one GP medal - CoR 2012. Nagasu won two in 2012, one in 2011 along with a 4CC bronze that year as well.

Reginald, yes - it's generally better to fall on a fully rotated jump than downgrade/UR another. When it's an easy jump like a 2A, the penalty is actually quite small (1.5 points lost on the element, one fall deduction for 2.5 points). Zhang's downgrade cost her more than that, and then two URs on top of it...... Zawadski scored 10 points for her triple triple. Zhang scored 9.67.. for all three of her jump passes. So Zawadski had a two element lead based on the jumps alone. When you consider the fact that her lutz is of very high quality.... it's super easy to mitigate the fall.

Now, the case with Nagasu is a little more complicated. But again, it comes down to base value. Zawadski lost those 2.5 points on the 2A. But she makes up 1.8 points in terms of base value and GOE on her two other elements. So the jump loss is only 0.7. Now, the youtube link provided doesn't convince me that Nagasu lost a great deal undeservingly PCS wise - it's a by-the-numbers skate with a major focus on landing the elements cleanly - which she does. Does Zawadski make up 1.7 points with her other elements and components?
 

Orange Cat

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012

... My heart actually breaks for Caroline. Not for the performance itself, which was lovely (and she looked so happy and relaxed), but after, when she heard her marks. Just- no.

Thanks for posting these, though. It sucks not being able to access a live stream, so fast uploads and swift linkers are much appreciated.

ETA: Thanks, IP, for the correction on the GP medal count. Clearly my memory isn't that great...
 
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Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
I don't care what kind of score Caroline got, it was a lovely performance. I think with such a small cushion going into the long, Ashley is going to feel the pressure. At the moment, I am inclined to think Agnes is going to pull off an upset.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Ashley probably handles pressure better then any US Lady right now by far. She's always been a strong free skater. Agnes is the one who needs to prove she can skate clean in a LP.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
I don't care what kind of score Caroline got, it was a lovely performance. I think with such a small cushion going into the long, Ashley is going to feel the pressure. At the moment, I am inclined to think Agnes is going to pull off an upset.

Not necessarily. Ashley has more rep now internationally. Of course Ashley needs to skate credibly well in the fp, but I don't see USFS crippling their front runner all things being equal. Agnes was definitely surprised at receiving such a high score in the sp so that may give her confidence, or it might not. Last year, Agnes came out of the blocks wonderfully in her sp and faltered in the fp. Agnes is a very good skater, but I don't see her as being a Kostner just because of similar speed. Agnes doesn't yet really have a well-defined personality on the ice. And neither did Kostner for awhile earlier in her career. Kostner is just lucky to be from Italy where Nationals was no big pressure deal, and she was assured of making Worlds year after year and having the opportunity to gain top level experience year after year, until she blossomed (particularly after a summer training in the United States with Frank Carroll).
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Mrs. P Protocal breakdown pt. 2 - PCS

PCS Overall:
Ashley 32.83
Agnes 30.37
Mirai 29.66
Christina 27.81
Gracie 26.34
Caroline 26.29
Hannah 25.84
Yasmin 25.74
Courtney 25.65
Ashley C. 25.55
Samantha 25.00
Angela 24.12

Skating Skills (SS)
Ashley 8.00
Agnes 7.75
Mirai 7.46
Christina 7.04
Gracie 6.93
Courtney 6.57
Caroline 6.54
Angela 6.36
Ashley C. 6.36
Yasmin 6.32
Hannah 6.25
Samantha 6.21

Transitions (TR)
Ashley 7.86
Agnes 7.25
Mirai 7.07
Christina 6.71
Gracie 6.39
Yasmin 6.32
Hannah 6.32
Ashley C. 6.07
Caroline 6.07
Courtney 5.96
Samantha 5.93
Angela 5.86

Performance/Execution (PE)
Ashley 8.43
Agnes 7.68
Mirai 7.57
Christina 6.86
Caroline 6.71
Courtney 6.64
Gracie 6.57
Hannah 6.57
Samantha 6.43
Yasmin 6.39
Ashley C. 6.50
Angela 5.89

Choreography (CH)
Ashley 8.29
Agnes 7.71
Mirai 7.46
Christina 7.07
Gracie 7.71
Caroline 6.79
Yasmin 6.68
Hannah 6.61
Ashley C. 6.61
Courtney 6.46
Samantha 6.32
Angela 6.18

Interpretation (IN)
Ashley 8.46
Agnes 7.57
Mirai 7.50
Christina 7.07
Caroline 6.75
Ashley C. 6.61
Gracie 6.57
Hannah 6.54
Yasmin 6.46
Courtney 6.43
Samantha 6.36
Angela 5.86


For all this talk about people getting dumped or boosted by PCS scores here, I'm not sure if I see it....
 
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willdu

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
... My heart actually breaks for Caroline. Not for the performance itself, which was lovely (and she looked so happy and relaxed), but after, when she heard her marks. Just- no.

Thanks for posting these, though. It sucks not being able to access a live stream, so fast uploads and swift linkers are much appreciated.

ETA: Thanks, IP, for the correction on the GP medal count. Clearly my memory isn't that great...

This. She clearly was ready to break down. The URs and downgrades are the worst. I think the loop is the hardest one to actually tell you URed or DGed because your constantly turning and you get the preflight buffer. She probably thought she did really well only to be let down.
 

James R

Match Penalty
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
For all this talk about people getting dumped or boosted by PCS scores here, I'm not sure if I see it....

You don't? Maybe because it's not as glaring if you break it down into tiny pieces. I think what happens is that small, consistent boosts add up. Was Ashley really that much better in every single section, or is she being boosted in SOME places (or boosted a little overall) because she's the frontrunner being coached by John Nicks?

That said, the UR thing still counts too much. This problem isn't going to go away, because the audience is not going to clearly see UR much of the time. So the final score destroyed by UR is going to always make for an angry audience, unless they either make a fairer system for UR (like something between double and triple) or stick big red flags in the audience's face whenever it happens.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
You don't? Maybe because it's not as glaring if you break it down into tiny pieces. I think what happens is that small, consistent boosts add up. Was Ashley really that much better in every single section, or is she being boosted cause she's the frontrunner being coached by John Nicks?

Honestly, she was the class of the field, so I think yes her scores are deserved. I mean Gracie Gold's PCS are the same as Hannah Miller's and not that far from Ashley Cain.
 
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