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Thread: 2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP

  1. #421
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    The highest gold has ever scored on a free skate is 113, I believe. That score for Caroline is 117. So, not sure why gold thinks she can make the podium now.

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  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    The highest gold has ever scored on a free skate is 113, I believe. That score for Caroline is 117. So, not sure why gold thinks she can make the podium now.
    If Gracie by some chance skates clean she will be over 120 easily i think. She hasn't come close to being clean this season in her LP though.

  4. #424
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    OK. I don't normally do this, but I MUST protest Caroline Zhang's penalties given by the tech panel. It looked like she did a 3Lo-3Lo< to me, and her 3F looked like it was within the 1/4 rotation allowance. Can anyone else with a good eye for these things comment? I really think she deserved better than the score she got.

    Mirai - love. Still my favourite current American lady to watch.

    Gracie - haven't been able to find a video of her SP yet, but I'm not surprised that I'm hearing her nerves got to her again. Maybe with the pressure off now, since she's not among the pack at the front, she will relax and pull something awesome?

  5. #425
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    I wonder if Peter and Karen were shocked by Caroline's score.

  6. #426
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    I think Caroline and both her coaches were disappointed with the marks, but the camera was mainly on Caroline's face when the scores came up. And, I think Peter and Karen as coaches are used to trying to stay positive in such situations. If not shocked, they were certainly all deflated after their hard work, and the fact Caroline did not skate poorly. To me her slow speed is the only real major weakness since she has worked so hard on improving technique on her jumps.

  7. #427
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Caroline Zhang is not fast, but she's not as slow as she used to be, either. Still doesn't explain why she got dinged and downgraded.

  8. #428
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    I'm not a skater myself, but the triple loop-triple loop looked okay to me. An underrotation plus a downgrade seems way harsh. Not to mention the downgraded flip.

    But I must say, I though Caroline's SP dress was so lovely, probably the best dress of all the ladies. It's too bad she'll only wear it once.

  9. #429
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    Watched Caroline again and again and thought she did 3Lo-3Lo< and decent 3F. I mean, no +GOE for the 3F, but wouldn't downgrade/UR that jump. Her first loop looked ok to me. WTH!!!!
    Agnes is no Kostner. Agnes is freaking slow. Haven't anyone seen her skating live? This girl is always slow. Her jumps are nice, but she has a lot of weakness. I like that she improved her steps.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Watched Caroline again and again and thought she did 3Lo-3Lo< and decent 3F. I mean, no +GOE for the 3F, but wouldn't downgrade/UR that jump. Her first loop looked ok to me. WTH!!!!
    Agnes is no Kostner. Agnes is freaking slow. Haven't anyone seen her skating live? This girl is always slow. Her jumps are nice, but she has a lot of weakness. I like that she improved her steps.


    The under-rotation rule is killing the sport. To the casual audience or more experienced fan, it doesn't make sense that a fall might get more points than an under rotated jump. If a fall gets -3 GOEs and a 1 point deduction, an under-rotated jump should at most get that. The rule should be changed so that if the Technical Controller thinks a jump was under-rotated, then he assigns an automatic one point deduction, as "harsh" as a fall. Then, the judges can review the possible rotation in slow motion to assign negative GOEs. If it's actually under-rotated, then -3 would be appropriated.

    If fans watching figure skating for decades are left scratching their heads about where a skater might place, something is wrong. We might not always get it right, but it should be close.

    There should be no question that Zhang's triple loop-triple loop while not perfect in slow motion should get more points that Gold's triple lutz-triple toe (with an obvious fall).

  11. #431
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    Thank you Mrs. P for the breakdown! Really enlightening to see it all spread out like that. I suppose if they actually added it up like that live it would confuse more people but I for one LOVE being able to line up the BV's with the GOE and compare PCS to PCS. It also helps to shed some light on how the standings ended up the way they did.

    I'm surprised by Mirai's level 2. But I don't have a handle on the rules enough to really protest it. Agnes gambled big and it payed off well for her. And I'm sure having such a high BV contributes to her PCS, rightfully so. Doing a tiple/triple a lutz and having two level 3s and two level 4s is massive. But then again... a fall... But we've been able to see since 2006 with Buttle (and probably earlier too) that falls just don't matter as much. Sigh, I wonder if I'll ever learn.

    Caroline was WAY underscored. watching the replay she def deserved at least 3loop/3loop< and I might argue for the full 3lo-3lo. The flip looked good to me too. The hardest part about that was definitely seeing her reaction to her scores. Everyone thought she did so well, and it's so great to see her smile, but then to get that score... my heart just breaks.

    Mirai has shown in the past that skating last in the FS is a really good thing for her. See Nationals 2010 and Olympics. She was the last skater at both of those events and she was just tremendous. I'm rooting for her.

    Also just want to give major props to Ashley and Mirai for bringing it tonight. Ashley had food poisoning last week, and Mirai had the flu. Both things are TERRIBLE and the flu this season has been particularly rough. It can be so hard to come back into training after being sick, just finding your rhythm and endurance again it tricky. I think they've shown in practice and here tonight that they both are really well trained to attack this nationals.

  12. #432
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    I feel awful for Caroline. Especialy after all the work she did to get back in contention last year. She gained some notice again last year, but it seems after a relatively poor fall, and the excitement over Ashley finally reaching the bigtime, Gold now a senior, Gao's good year, Nagasu looking rejuvenated, Agnes's potential, and a second tier up and comers starting to make their presence known, they were just happy to dump her completely for good, figuring she really has no place in the future plans for U.S women. I wonder if we will even see her back next season. She is one tough and determined girl if she comes back.

  13. #433
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    My thoughts:
    Ashley: This program is most definitely choreographically intriguing (and definitely superior to her Samson/Delilah LP). This is the first program I've witnessed from her that I thoroughly enjoy and suits her style. Although she showed some hesitation in the beginning, this program compensates for it by building in intensity in a clear fashion, and that is what makes this program so successful for me.
    Agnes: Interesting concept, but a somewhat cautious execution of the program. The fall on the 2 Axel should've been much more costly, as you could see the fear and anxiety on her face and how the choregraphy lets up before it. Should've been lower.
    Mirai: Finally! I think this program is a fit for her; it allows her to connect to the audience and it plays to similar concepts in her previous years as she transitions to a more mature look, but also keeps her playful style. If she hadn't been in the earlier flights, she would've been placed higher, but c'est la vie.
    Courtney: Haven't seen her program, but I really don't like her skating. She has height on her jumps, but the combinations are under-rotated (and sometimes downgraded) and her posture going into it is abhorrent on many levels. I don't think she's going to rise through with technique like this.
    Christina: Damn the Spin. What's different about this year is that she's skating with more confidence, as if she's taking command of the ice. Also, unlike last year, I strongly believe she's going to move up from 5th this year.
    Caroline: Her artistry is pleasant, but the choreography leaves much to be desired with transitions. When paired with her speed issues, I can't say I'm surprised by her score. Also, even in real-time, I felt that the second Loop and Flip were marked appropriately. In slow-motion, the rotation issues become very apparent (although the first Loop was borderline quarter and the second was borderline half). Given her results on the Grand Prix, I think the federation's moving on.....

  14. #434
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    Bruin714 I could not agree with you more. I understand the under-rotation rule, but it's such a killjoy to a point of being SO detrimental. Who cares if Caroline got that final quarter in? Seriously. Maybe it should be within .5 to have it ratified and then let the judges score it at their discretion. If a judge can notice anything that the jump only got 2.75 rotations around and wants to give a -GOE they can, and should. I just don't understand this double whammy policy on jumps.

    How many competitions have we watched where the event feels totally corrupted because someone skates clean and gets the audience excited and yet they get buried by UR's?

    While it does make great skates of someone like Yu Na seem all the more brilliant it just drives me nuts.

  15. #435
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
    True, but Gracie and Christina and Agnes FELL, and they're way ahead of Caroline. So, it's better to fall now than to under rotate jumps?

    Sarah Hughes wouldn't have been anywhere near the podium at Salt Lake City had this system been in place.
    Falls under CoP have always been less punitive than downgrades. It's perplexing because falls are so jarring and take away from the impression, while under-rotations are hardly noticeable except to the keen, trained eye. It's a tough balance but I do agree under-rotations shouldn't be so punitive relative to falls.

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