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Thread: 2013 Europeans Pairs - Short Program

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redstone View Post
    Mhhm, ahead of S/S? I doubt it. But if they skated clean they'd be in the 3d for sure.
    As to S/S - there's still a LP, so anything can happen, but I hope that V/T will keep it together and finally win over S/S.
    B/L have now crack 70+ score range of S/S and V/T and their LP's they can score 130+

  2. #107
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    Good competition from european pairs.

    Well deserved 1st place to V/T. Now I understand the face of him. They have such a good elements, but ot wans't a perfect perfect profram. Bad exit on the slachow from T, and V touch with the free leg on the exit of the throw. The spiral wans't good too, so I don't uderstand the 3 points between them and S/S.

    S/S skated well, a little bit off maybe, but I love them, and they are always trying new things... I think they already try everything, so is normal we think this isn't original. All other pairs skate their style. Good luck to FP.

    The italians skated very well, they deserve bronze, because are being consistent this season and have beautiful programs.

    K/S What are happening with them? Another bad performance, maybe they are sick and tired of competition.

    Lets see the free program, I hope amazing performances.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    For my money, K/S can hold their heads high whatever happens to their career going forward. I know an Olympic medal must be their dream, and it's eluded them, and it appears it will again and on some level that is a pity.

    However, they have made the GPF every year since 2007 except for last year when they had to withdraw from one of their events due to injury. They have two worlds medals, 4 Europeans medals including a gold (medaling there each year since 2007 except for last year when they WD as well), and have finished no lower than 9th at an international event since the beginning of their partnership- and this 9th was at the World Championships the very first year they were together. At any other International event but the World championships, the lowest they have placed is 6th.

    All but 6 of their international placements at competitions have been 4th place or above (out of over 30 events). They were 4th at an Olympics. They have much to be proud of and I myself still love to watch them skate.
    Did K/S announce retirement overnight?
    If so, I feel for Moskvina. She has spent the last decade of her long and illustrious career working hard as ever with nothing to show for it, and she will be in forced early retirement not being allowed to stay for the OG in her own country. That is a real tragedy.

  4. #109
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    Did not follow the Pair comp last night, was too late for me, didn't read this thread either. So I don't know what excatly happened.
    But just to placements and its gap btwn V/T and S/S, and to K/S's placement...5th place;;; am surprised. What happened to Yuko and Sasha??? So happy to Stefania and Ondreij, though!

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    B/L have now crack 70+ score range of S/S and V/T and their LP's they can score 130+
    True, but I can't see judges preferring B/L over S/S or V/T yet, unless the last two melt down completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by StellaCampo View Post
    Did K/S announce retirement overnight?
    No, they didn't. But Moskvina seems to be very dissapointed with them. I hope she won't retire after Sochi, but find a new pair for her to coach.

  6. #111
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    I for one agree with the good things said about K/S - for me they are a joy to watch, and I feel it is a privilege to watch them, as long as they continue.

    As for @StellaCampo - what you mean by "with nothing to show for it", is beyond my comprehension.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    I for one agree with the good things said about K/S - for me they are a joy to watch, and I feel it is a privilege to watch them, as long as they continue.

    As for @StellaCampo - what you mean by "with nothing to show for it", is beyond my comprehension.
    Because Moskvina has not produced a world or olympic gold medalist since B/S retired, and that's the only thing that counts in Russia. If I remember correctly Yuko has said as much in her blog (I think, or somewhere where she was quoted to have said so). It is not my value judgement.
    V/T is under the same pressure. For me it's enough V/T have delivered great twists, jumps and throws and proved equal to S/S; I wish they'd be more selective about music and choreo than the colour of the medal, but no, they have to get that gold medal, that's how it is.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaCampo View Post
    Because Moskvina has not produced a world or olympic gold medalist since B/S retired, and that's the only thing that counts in Russia. If I remember correctly Yuko has said as much in her blog (I think, or somewhere where she was quoted to have said so). It is not my value judgement.
    V/T is under the same pressure. For me it's enough V/T have delivered great twists, jumps and throws and proved equal to S/S; I wish they'd be more selective about music and choreo than the colour of the medal, but no, they have to get that gold medal, that's how it is.
    All right, then I understand - thanks for explaining. I also don't think the those medals are all that matter - I love to see K/S skate, no matter the placement; though obviously, I want them to do as well as possible.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    indeed they improved so much this season
    had they been at Euros and skated cleanly they would have been guaranteed silver medalists
    Guaranteed? This is figure skating, NOTHING is guaranteed. One good competition at the GPF (70.14+131.46) does not a good consistent pair create. They are still the worst elite jumpers and she barely lands her throws. They will need a season of good scores under their belts before they can even begin to challenge SS and VT and it won't happen before they retire.

    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    B/L have now crack 70+ score range of S/S and V/T and their LP's they can score 130+
    They hit 70.14 once, they rest of the scores are in the mid 60s. They hit 131.46 in the free but they are at mid 120s the rest of the time. Too early to crown them with roses.

    Quote Originally Posted by StellaCampo View Post
    Did K/S announce retirement overnight?
    If so, I feel for Moskvina. She has spent the last decade of her long and illustrious career working hard as ever with nothing to show for it, and she will be in forced early retirement not being allowed to stay for the OG in her own country. That is a real tragedy.
    Moskvina did nothing until recently to do this team any favors, especially Yuko. Just last year she got her ballet training and she has never got them a specialist for their twist. She has dressed (her mostly) in the ugliest costumes ever-she looked like a child and reuses their music/choreography too much. I can see Rondo being re-used, Moskvina didn’t pick it; their first coach did.

    She hasn’t coach an Olympic pair since 2002 (we won’t get into if they deserved it) but K/S are not to be blamed for 2006, they weren’t even a pair. They have given her many medals and much to be proud of considering her lackadaisical approach with them. They bombed this short but over all they have won 7 out of 9 small medals at Euros and will probably be 3rd in the free today, if that’s enough for an overall bronze remains to be seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    I for one agree with the good things said about K/S - for me they are a joy to watch, and I feel it is a privilege to watch them, as long as they continue.

    As for @StellaCampo - what you mean by "with nothing to show for it", is beyond my comprehension.
    “with nothing to show for it” means she either didn’t read the post that listed the accoplishments or doesn’t comprehend how good it really is. Coming from nothing to win all those medals is a huge accomplishment that would be recognized if it were any other team.

    Quote Originally Posted by StellaCampo View Post
    Because Moskvina has not produced a world or olympic gold medalist since B/S retired, and that's the only thing that counts in Russia. If I remember correctly Yuko has said as much in her blog (I think, or somewhere where she was quoted to have said so). It is not my value judgement.
    V/T is under the same pressure. For me it's enough V/T have delivered great twists, jumps and throws and proved equal to S/S; I wish they'd be more selective about music and choreo than the colour of the medal, but no, they have to get that gold medal, that's how it is.
    She has coached plenty of pairs since B/S and none of them have come close to K/S success including M/T. Yuko doesn’t have a blog, a Japanese person who lives in St. Petersburg writes it from when she talks to her, she doesn’t own it. Moskvina has already said she will retire from coaching in 2014 and will only be an advisor to the teams. She is over 70 so she wants more time with her family.

    If you think V/T have to win and OGM or they are failures you don’t know enough about skating in Russia or skating in general. B/L have been together since 2005, K/S 2006; so B/L should be getting much better but the best they have done at worlds is 5th (K/S have 2 bronze medals, less than a point away from silver both times) K/S were 4th in the Olympics, B/L were 11th. B/L got both of their European medals because someone better was missing, same with the national title. They have only won one gold medal in the GP circuit (K/S have five) and the one the won at NHK had only one other competitor. If K/S are considered failures, what must be thought of B/L? B/L have better choreography than V/T and for that matter so do S/K but V/T have the elements to back it up. Except I think B/L twist is better because they have much more control over it.

  10. #115
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    B/L are losers. Why are people comparing B/L to K/S. K/S, when they were good, were much better team with better programs than B/L could ever hope for.
    The problem is K/S are spiraling downward. They aren't threatening anymore. They will never set foot on the podium at big event again. I see K retired by 2014. S might continue with a different partner, but will place even lower than Mukhortova and her partner a while back. Hao Zhang who was a stronger male pair didn't have much success with the new girl. Smirnov can't even do proper twist throw and is a weaker jumper, will not go very far.

    Basically done done done for K/S.

  11. #116
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    I don't understand you, mousepotato. Everytime someone says anything negative about K/S, you hit the roof. Why?
    Also the point you seem to be making is rather curious.
    You seem to be saying that Moskvina didn't work hard (regarding K/S) but has a lot to show for it (as K/S got lots of medals). So either Moskvina or K/S or both are real genius. I see.
    I didn't write a legal document. 'Her blog' is not in the sense that she is the copy right holder. Sorry, if it was used to refer to a blog about Yuko.
    I didn't mention B/L nor did I compare B/L with K/S. I never said V/T is a failure either. On the contrary.
    That's it. I won't have anymore dialogue with you about this.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    B/L are losers. Why are people comparing B/L to K/S. K/S, when they were good, were much better team with better programs than B/L could ever hope for.
    The problem is K/S are spiraling downward. They aren't threatening anymore. They will never set foot on the podium at big event again. I see K retired by 2014. S might continue with a different partner, but will place even lower than Mukhortova and her partner a while back. Hao Zhang who was a stronger male pair didn't have much success with the new girl. Smirnov can't even do proper twist throw and is a weaker jumper, will not go very far.

    Basically done done done for K/S.
    LOL blunt and harsh but true in all respects. Although I do think B/L will probably take the bronze at Worlds this year unless the Canadian teams can repeat their National performances and get a big hometown boost.

    I dont see either K/S or Pang & Tong on a major podium ever again, but even P&T have a much better chance than K&S to be on another at this point. It is a shame K&S wasted their chances for a higher placing at the 2008, 2009, and 2010 Worlds, and the 2010 Olympics, that was their main window.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by mousepotato View Post
    I think they have a good chance at a bronze even though they are eight points back. B/H have a personal best of 112.24 and K/S have a seasons worst of 119.83 with many mistakes. B/H have been in third twice now and last year they dropped to 4th. That may work for them or against them.
    One funny (ironic) note: The only other time Smirnov has fallen on a jump in his career was in Zagreb in 2008 and they managed to move up to 3rd. So maybe it's fate.
    LOL. You said the same at last year World championship. T/T had a season best of 112 or something, so definitely not a factor in the LP.
    B/H had a PB of 112 and K/S had a season's worst of 119.83.

    Nonsense. There's a thing called momentum. T/T were in an upward momentum, B/H are in an upward momentum. K/S are going down. Nothing they can do at this point to stop it.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaCampo View Post
    I don't understand you, mousepotato. Everytime someone says anything negative about K/S, you hit the roof. Why?
    Also the point you seem to be making is rather curious.
    You seem to be saying that Moskvina didn't work hard (regarding K/S) but has a lot to show for it (as K/S got lots of medals). So either Moskvina or K/S or both are real genius.
    Hit the roof? I didn’t say Moskvina didn’t work hard but she certainly could have worked harder, or differently for the reasons I already stated. They did a great job in spite of her dressing Yuko like a child and making them skate to things like Love Story. I have been just as critical with K/S’s coach, twist, jumps, Yuko's knees and elbows, music, costumes, etc as the next guy; but I'm also willing to give them a pass for injuries and surgeries. Just like Denney and Coughlin should be given the same courtesy if they end up going to worlds.

    I'm also not going to write them off for not getting and Olympic gold medal after being together for only 3 1/2 years. If that's the case B/H should win a World championship medal this year and Olympic gold next year since they have been together for four years. After all Hotarek is older than Smirnov. Are they going to be written off after 2014 or given the benefit of the doubt?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    LOL. You said the same at last year World championship. T/T had a seasons best of 112 or something, so definitely not a factor in the LP.
    B/H had a PB of 112 and K/S had a season's worst of 119.83.

    Nonsense. There's a thing called momentum. T/T were in an upward momentum, B/H are in an upward momentum. K/S are going down. Nothing they can do at this point to stop it.
    T/T? What happened to their momentum? They lost to D/R and B/L at the WTT only a few short weeks later.
    Are K/S “going down” like P/T who went down to 4th at worlds after being beat by K/S and Z/Z? Yet they managed to come back a year later and win an OSM and World gold? So I guess all is not lost unless an injury forces retirement.

    After a short anything can happen so all anyone can do is speculate, anything can (and does) happen. At Worlds last year K/S were off the ice until two weeks before the competition and would have been fourth or better if one of their lifts didn’t get a zero. Same with Sui and Han- their difference between 9th and 4th was one unforeseeable botched lift.

    With Euros this year; I said S/S, V/T and K/S will be on the podium unless there is injury and illness and apparently I was right. Smirnov went to back specialist-and was shown holding his back after the sp.

    During warm-up before the short program, all saw how Alexander Smirnov went to the side and asked a specialist to stretch his back. Moskvina didn’t tell about a medical problem, which obviously does not allow Smirnov to skate at full strength.
    It will be interesting to see who gets what at worlds. I think V/T will win but I certainly wouldn’t count anyone out.

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