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Thread: 2013 Europeans Pairs LP

  1. #151
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    I haven't seen any of pairs performances yet, but so shocked about Yuko/Sasha's 5th overall finish at the Euro. And their PCS was so low...Their free program deserved much better PCS imo... Were they that bad? worse than the French pair? Really??

    Big Congrats to Stefania and Ondrej! Their very first ISU Championship medal, right? They must be very thrilled!!!

  2. #152
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    I am really happy that VT finally win and did it fairly no matter what someone try interpret it in another way!|Maxim is a real professional and a strong person, did evуrything to make his father be proud of him!
    And I am so tired of those comments with some imaginable "conspirasy theories" or unfair judging. For me it always seems that in this forum it is always like this when a russian sportsmen win. why can people just accept the fact the even those sportsmen whom they do not like can win fairly because of their hard work and performances during the championship? or may be there are any evidence and proof about those tricks in favour of the particular skates? or we just take it as the universal truth when just a spectacular try to make a judges' job?) I guess no!)and besides when it is concerned sport we can not use the word IF .. If they did not fall or if they did not double the jump they would have.. we can not know what the judges would do if SS did not fall and nobody knows because it did not happen and it is useless to speculate about this situation.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by gioccia View Post
    KS - program of the night with or without mistakes. Gorgeous. I don't understand their low scores.
    You might be in the minority among the skating fans in Russia who can still evaluate K/S's programs positively and objectively. It is a question mark whether or not they could still be selected for the 2014 Olympic team considering their dropping ranking in the world. To be frank, K/S have improved a lot artistically over the past 2years, but ironically, their PCS have been decreasing gradually since 2010 Olympics.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Go to the US nationals they give away marks lilke potato chips. Remember the old days when 6.0's were given out at US nationals like they were nothing. Stand up somewhat and smile 6.0 lol
    US nationals just got the least inflated nationals scoring

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevergonnadance View Post
    The main issue, IMO, was speed and ice coverage. VT had much more power, longer run of blade, covered the ice and were fast. S&S were dragging out there and not covering the ice as well. Their elements, save for the mistakes, were huge. Their choreography, taste aside, was intricate. But relative to VT they were dragging and not getting the power out of the blade.
    You are right.

    But it's much easier to generate speed and ice coverage if you don't have that much going on, in between your elements. If you're pretty much constantly performing some kind of connecting footwork, then the trade-off will be your speed not being as impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by galchonok1729 View Post
    For me it always seems that in this forum it is always like this when a russian sportsmen win. why can people just accept the fact the even those sportsmen whom they do not like can win fairly because of their hard work and performances during the championship? or may be there are any evidence and proof about those tricks in favour of the particular skates?
    It's got nothing to do with skaters being Russian or liking or not liking them.

    V/T were near perfect in the SP, S/S' program was not that great and V/T deservedly won.

    But in the FS, V/T's elements were not as well executed and there was a huge difference between the two teams as far as program construction, element layout, transitions, etc. goes.

    Watch S/S' program closely. All the elements are connected together. The entries are short, there are transitions coming in and out of pretty much everything. No other team got anywhere near that. So why is it not getting rewarded?

    Their program did lack light and shade but so did the music, which stayed at a similar mood and tempo throughout, so their movement was appropriate to it.

    People can hate the costumes and the music but that's not what skaters should be judged on. What you judge skaters on is whether they are skating to the music they have chosen and S/S did.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 01-25-2013 at 05:00 AM.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Good to see V&T have such an emotional win under the most dificult circumstances. What a brave and courageous individual Maxim Trankov is. Also good to see them finally beat S&S after being robbed of both the GP Final and World golds last year by poor judging. Hopefully they will get the World and Olympic golds they deserve this and next year now.
    ?? Why would they deserve Olympic and World gold already? Dont you deserve it once you skate and it turns out it was the best performance of the night? Or am I missing something? It almost sounds like their competitors are just semi-mediocre skaters that they can just ignore.. I think what you say is simply unfair towards other skaters.


    I did not like neither V/T nor S/S LP. Both deserve MUCH BETTER programs. S/S is packed and was supposed to be creative, but as many of you say, something went in wrong direction. When you experiment with challanging concepts, sometimes you hit the nail, sometimes you miss. Steuer must take conclusions for the future programs. And yes, pleaaaaze change the costumes..
    I would like to see S/S skate to something really classic - classic, well known music that they make their own. New approach to a 'worn' piece. That is actually something they havent tried yet! Or am I wrong?
    V/T - skate to the Game of Thrones music next season! But stay away from Morozov choreo, please! (it is not going to happen, though...)
    It would be fun if both V/T and S/S picked Game of Thrones music for the olympic season... What an intersting battle that would be....

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I really hate repeating this for the 3243543 time because it feels like talking to a wall but watch S/S' program closely.
    Do you really think, no one else did? They do have transition but it doesn't fully explain why are slower than VT and seemed to have less ice coverage. Plus, IMO, V/T have more elgant and easy lifts and a far better twist. That counts for something too, doesn't it?
    If Robin wouldn't double 3S and Aliona wouldn't fall, I'm sure their PCS would be higher (butchered throw landings are a bad thing to happen, but it's a less mistake than a fall.).
    I'm sure we won't agree, but you aren't talking to a wall, we just don't agree with you and we have our reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinga View Post
    It would be fun if both V/T and S/S picked Game of Thrones music for the olympic season
    Lol, I'd love to see that.
    Last edited by Redstone; 01-25-2013 at 05:22 AM.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redstone View Post
    Do you really think, no one else did? They do have transition but it doesn't fully explain why are slower than VT and seemed to have less ice coverage. Plus, IMO, V/T have more elgant and easy lifts and a far better twist. That counts for something too, doesn't it?
    If Robin wouldn't double 3S and Aliona wouldn't fall, I'm sure their PCS would be higher (butchered throw landings are a bad thing to happen, but it's a less mistake than a fall.).
    I'm sure we won't agree, but you aren't talking to a wall, we just don't agree with you and we have our reasons.
    Why would their PCS increase without the fall? Would the choreography would be better without a fall? Or skating skills? They fell, they got penalized on TES. Some may argue performance/execution mark gets affected by the fall, but the rest? Ziggy just explained why having more in between the elements takes away some of the speed.It's easier to be fast when there are less transitions. You have less speed or less ice coverage you get lower SS. You have more intricate choreo and transitions, you should get reworded for it also. I agree V/T have better twist, they got more points for it. Having a better 3twist has nothing to do with PCS though.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Why would their PCS increase without the fall? Would the choreography would be better without a fall? Or skating skills? They fell, they got penalized on TES. Some may argue performance/execution mark gets affected by the fall, but the rest? Ziggy just explained why having more in between the elements takes away some of the speed.It's easier to be fast when there are less transitions. You have less speed or less ice coverage you get lower SS. You have more intricate choreo and transitions, you should get reworded for it also. I agree V/T have better twist, they got more points for it. Having a better 3twist has nothing to do with PCS though.
    No, but that what the judges do. Check out the protocols for this season - that looks like a trend nowdays. And again, I don't agree that transitions reduce general ice coverage and speed. Some - of corse, but not that much (maybe the problem is with rather slow Bolero music, idk). And it's totally my opinion, but I think V/T have better edges.

  10. #160
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    Ziggy,

    Looking at your comment it seems that the transitions should be the most important to be rewarded and actually interpretation and the speed are actually should not be very significant. So may be in this case the skaters just need to chose a calm melody for their performance and move slowly with the programm full of transitions and this will bring them a victory.. actually I watched SS programm carefully and in the case of transitions I can agree with you partly that there were more transitions in their program than in VT's but still there was no such a crutial difference in this aspect in my opinion or that HUGE difference that you saw. And besides while watching SS programm I did not feel intensity in it, it did not start to be built to the end as actually Bolero is supposed to be. Actually I agree with the euronews commentator who said that it left him cold as if there were no emotions in them when there were skating it. But still it is my subjective opinion and even with those transitions I did not see anything extraordinary and new for what SS should be specially rewarded. Besides I always thought that presentation it is not just moving in rythm with the music but to show the emotions, to be intense and expresive besides costume play a role (may be just for the spectacular, I do not know if it influence the judges). I guess that to get the high presentation mark it should be somehow the whole package and the mood as well. And concerning other aspects I liked VT more. But the tastes differ and it is always like this.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by galchonok1729 View Post
    I can agree with you partly that there were more transitions in their program than in VT's but still there was no such a crutial difference in this aspect in my opinion or that HUGE difference that you saw.
    So you agree S/S should have won at least on Tr mark and they didn't. That was the point, not that V/T didn't deserve to win overall. We were complaining about how PCS are scored together as whole rather than separately.

  12. #162
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    Actually at the very beginning I referred just all those comments which stated that VT's programm was boring, that those people do not like their choreography and etc. And that all the judges just made some tricks in favour of Volosozhar and Trankov and that is why they won at least FP. So to this point I can say that I DO like their choreography and like Morozov choreography and choice of music of their programm and think that it was more impressive than SS' programm. This is a subjective point and depends on a person's taste always! now I know that SS lost in tr. mark. So I am not a judge even if I agree that in my personal opinion there were more transitions in their programm but it is a slight difference to my mind. So and was the difference in marks for transitions huge in order to make it a huge theme? (I am just interested).

  13. #163
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    As far as I understand it, it is not usual for judges to have great disparity in their PCS - for instance, high Interpretation, but low Transition, or what have you. So one high mark tends to give another. I think this is utterly siily, but probably a discussion for a thread of its own. How are PCS adjudged? And is it done right? I'd be interested to read such a discussion, actually, but alas, I would lack sufficient knowledge to add anything to it...

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by galchonok1729 View Post
    I am really happy that VT finally win and did it fairly no matter what someone try interpret it in another way!|Maxim is a real professional and a strong person, did evуrything to make his father be proud of him!
    And I am so tired of those comments with some imaginable "conspirasy theories" or unfair judging. For me it always seems that in this forum it is always like this when a russian sportsmen win. why can people just accept the fact the even those sportsmen whom they do not like can win fairly because of their hard work and performances during the championship? or may be there are any evidence and proof about those tricks in favour of the particular skates? or we just take it as the universal truth when just a spectacular try to make a judges' job?) I guess no!)and besides when it is concerned sport we can not use the word IF .. If they did not fall or if they did not double the jump they would have.. we can not know what the judges would do if SS did not fall and nobody knows because it did not happen and it is useless to speculate about this situation.
    Can't agree more!

  15. #165
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    Congrats to all the medalists and a special hug for Maxim for skating so well under such terrible conditions.
    I love Aliona and Robin but this LP doesn't touch me as much as their other works such as Pina (masterpiece).
    The italians and the french were really great.
    I can't help but to feel sorry for K&S. Their LP is sooooo beautiful but they really have to go clean. It's heartbreaking to see them in 5th place.

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