2013 Europeans Pairs LP | Page 8 | Golden Skate

2013 Europeans Pairs LP

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Oh my god. This thread is like deja vu of SD thread- Russian mafia bought ISU. I was expecting something more creative.
 

gioccia

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
KS - program of the night with or without mistakes. Gorgeous. I don't understand their low scores.
VT - I didn't like the way they skated tonight, no passion, but grief...well...understandable, some mistakes, huge score.
SS - As i said earlier, their time is over, no creative programs, awful costumes, BIG mistakes every skate and what puts me down - they skate as if they don't care... I used to be anxious to see them, cuz it was an entertainment each time, joy - now - nothing. And they realise that it doesn't depend on them, it depends on VT if they are clean or with small errors, they'll win. And there's no point getting offended cuz SS used to be ALWAYS overscored, don't you remember when they won over KS with big mistakes and missed element? By the way they DID get a huge score tonight as well for what they showed!
Happy for the Italians!!!
 

gioccia

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
You prefer the worlds where Russians bought all the medals? I do not.
Of course I would like Canadian Skating Federation (or some millionaire) to buy them medals, unfortunately Canadian millionaires money go for such "small" things like improving Canadian economy, solid banking and things like that. And they prefer skaters to win medals honestly. I am sure, so do Canadian skaters. :biggrin:

I will never ever forget DD's and Chan's poor performances and huge score at Vancouver! Oh and that Osmond)))
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
PAIRS LONG PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

1. Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR & Maxim TRANKOV (RUS) - 212.45 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, Interview
2. Aliona SAVCHENKO & Robin SZOLKOWY (GER) - 205.24 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
3. Stefania BERTON & Ondrej HOTAREK (ITA) - 187.45 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
4. Vanessa JAMES & Morgan CIPRES (FRA) - 178.81 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
5. Yuko KAVAGUTI & Alexander SMIRNOV (RUS) - 175.48 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
6. Ksenia STOLBOVA & Fedor KLIMOV (RUS) - 167.23 Free Skate
7. Daria POPOVA & Bruno MASSOT (FRA) - 157.12 Free Skate
8. Mari VARTMANN & Aaron VAN CLEAVE (GER) - 141.79 Free Skate
9. Nicole DELLA MONICA & Matteo GUARISE (ITA) - 140.89 Free Skate
10. Stacey KEMP & David KING (GBR) - 131.51 Free Skate
11. Julia LAVRENTIEVA & Yuri RUDYK (UKR) - 128.79 Free Skate
12. Elizaveta MAKAROVA & Leri KENCHADZE (BUL) - 115.96 Free Skate
13. Stina MARTINI & Severin KIEFER (AUT) - 112.29 Free Skate
14. Maria PALIAKOVA & Nikita BOCHKOV (BLR) - 103.13 Free Skate
15. Magdalena KLATKA & Radoslaw CHRUSCINSKI (POL) - 99.65 Free Skate

Medal Ceremony
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
The sad thing is that even without the fall on the side by side 3S, S/S would still be second. I knew it from the very start S/S have no chance once I saw V/T's score. It was pretty much set up, just like in 2010 euros IMO. One can only hope for a more objective panel of judges at worlds
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
You prefer the worlds where Russians bought all the medals? And they prefer skaters to win medals honestly. I am sure, so do Canadian skaters.:biggrin:

:laugh:, thanks for the good laugh
yes Chan's superinflated scores with 2 falls or Osmond's 200+ score will disagree with you
D/R 200+ score ;)
 
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Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I have to say maybe the Germans are getting a taste of their own medicine. for years I never quite saw why the scored so high though it is just my opinion. And to be honest I find it really disturbing that their little gimmicks or transitiosn are teh same over and over. I know you shouldn't get deductions for that but their entrances into throws and jumps are getting boring to me. And being artistic does not mean having to be "weird". That being said there is no really awe inspiring pairs team in the world right now. I am not even enamoured so much with the Italians though happy they won a bronze - though I do fear it could be the bronze of death that seems to be the problem for some odd reason with bronze medallists.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
ks - program of the night with or without mistakes. Gorgeous. I don't understand their low scores.
Vt - i didn't like the way they skated tonight, no passion, but grief...well...understandable, some mistakes, huge score.
Ss - as i said earlier, their time is over, no creative programs, awful costumes, big mistakes every skate and what puts me down - they skate as if they don't care... I used to be anxious to see them, cuz it was an entertainment each time, joy - now - nothing. And they realise that it doesn't depend on them, it depends on vt if they are clean or with small errors, they'll win. And there's no point getting offended cuz ss used to be always overscored, don't you remember when they won over ks with big mistakes and missed element? By the way they did get a huge score tonight as well for what they showed!

I
happy for the italians!!!

ita
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
:laugh:, thanks for the good laugh
yes Chan's superinflated scores with 2 falls or Osmond's 200+ score will disagree with you
D/R 200+ score ;)

Go to the US nationals they give away marks lilke potato chips. Remember the old days when 6.0's were given out at US nationals like they were nothing. Stand up somewhat and smile 6.0 lol
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
I haven't seen any of pairs performances yet, but so shocked about Yuko/Sasha's 5th overall finish at the Euro. And their PCS was so low...Their free program deserved much better PCS imo...:sarcasm: Were they that bad? worse than the French pair? Really??

Big Congrats to Stefania and Ondrej! :clap: Their very first ISU Championship medal, right? They must be very thrilled!!! :yes:
 

galchonok1729

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I am really happy that VT finally win and did it fairly no matter what someone try interpret it in another way!|Maxim is a real professional and a strong person, did evуrything to make his father be proud of him!
And I am so tired of those comments with some imaginable "conspirasy theories" or unfair judging. For me it always seems that in this forum it is always like this when a russian sportsmen win. why can people just accept the fact the even those sportsmen whom they do not like can win fairly because of their hard work and performances during the championship? or may be there are any evidence and proof about those tricks in favour of the particular skates? or we just take it as the universal truth when just a spectacular try to make a judges' job?) I guess no!)and besides when it is concerned sport we can not use the word IF .. If they did not fall or if they did not double the jump they would have.. we can not know what the judges would do if SS did not fall and nobody knows because it did not happen and it is useless to speculate about this situation.
 

Thawingiceberg

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
KS - program of the night with or without mistakes. Gorgeous. I don't understand their low scores.

You might be in the minority among the skating fans in Russia who can still evaluate K/S's programs positively and objectively. It is a question mark whether or not they could still be selected for the 2014 Olympic team considering their dropping ranking in the world. To be frank, K/S have improved a lot artistically over the past 2years, but ironically, their PCS have been decreasing gradually since 2010 Olympics.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Go to the US nationals they give away marks lilke potato chips. Remember the old days when 6.0's were given out at US nationals like they were nothing. Stand up somewhat and smile 6.0 lol

US nationals just got the least inflated nationals scoring
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
The main issue, IMO, was speed and ice coverage. VT had much more power, longer run of blade, covered the ice and were fast. S&S were dragging out there and not covering the ice as well. Their elements, save for the mistakes, were huge. Their choreography, taste aside, was intricate. But relative to VT they were dragging and not getting the power out of the blade.

You are right.

But it's much easier to generate speed and ice coverage if you don't have that much going on, in between your elements. If you're pretty much constantly performing some kind of connecting footwork, then the trade-off will be your speed not being as impressive.

For me it always seems that in this forum it is always like this when a russian sportsmen win. why can people just accept the fact the even those sportsmen whom they do not like can win fairly because of their hard work and performances during the championship? or may be there are any evidence and proof about those tricks in favour of the particular skates?

It's got nothing to do with skaters being Russian or liking or not liking them.

V/T were near perfect in the SP, S/S' program was not that great and V/T deservedly won.

But in the FS, V/T's elements were not as well executed and there was a huge difference between the two teams as far as program construction, element layout, transitions, etc. goes.

Watch S/S' program closely. All the elements are connected together. The entries are short, there are transitions coming in and out of pretty much everything. No other team got anywhere near that. So why is it not getting rewarded?

Their program did lack light and shade but so did the music, which stayed at a similar mood and tempo throughout, so their movement was appropriate to it.

People can hate the costumes and the music but that's not what skaters should be judged on. What you judge skaters on is whether they are skating to the music they have chosen and S/S did.
 
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Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Good to see V&T have such an emotional win under the most dificult circumstances. What a brave and courageous individual Maxim Trankov is. Also good to see them finally beat S&S after being robbed of both the GP Final and World golds last year by poor judging. Hopefully they will get the World and Olympic golds they deserve this and next year now.

:scratch: ?? Why would they deserve Olympic and World gold already? Dont you deserve it once you skate and it turns out it was the best performance of the night? Or am I missing something? It almost sounds like their competitors are just semi-mediocre skaters that they can just ignore.. I think what you say is simply unfair towards other skaters.


I did not like neither V/T nor S/S LP. Both deserve MUCH BETTER programs. S/S is packed and was supposed to be creative, but as many of you say, something went in wrong direction. When you experiment with challanging concepts, sometimes you hit the nail, sometimes you miss. Steuer must take conclusions for the future programs. And yes, pleaaaaze change the costumes..
I would like to see S/S skate to something really classic - classic, well known music that they make their own. New approach to a 'worn' piece. That is actually something they havent tried yet! Or am I wrong?
V/T - skate to the Game of Thrones music next season! But stay away from Morozov choreo, please! (it is not going to happen, though...)
It would be fun if both V/T and S/S picked Game of Thrones music for the olympic season... What an intersting battle that would be....
 

Redstone

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
I really hate repeating this for the 3243543 time because it feels like talking to a wall but watch S/S' program closely.

Do you really think, no one else did? They do have transition but it doesn't fully explain why are slower than VT and seemed to have less ice coverage. Plus, IMO, V/T have more elgant and easy lifts and a far better twist. That counts for something too, doesn't it?
If Robin wouldn't double 3S and Aliona wouldn't fall, I'm sure their PCS would be higher (butchered throw landings are a bad thing to happen, but it's a less mistake than a fall.).
I'm sure we won't agree, but you aren't talking to a wall, we just don't agree with you and we have our reasons.

It would be fun if both V/T and S/S picked Game of Thrones music for the olympic season
Lol, I'd love to see that.
 
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Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Do you really think, no one else did? They do have transition but it doesn't fully explain why are slower than VT and seemed to have less ice coverage. Plus, IMO, V/T have more elgant and easy lifts and a far better twist. That counts for something too, doesn't it?
If Robin wouldn't double 3S and Aliona wouldn't fall, I'm sure their PCS would be higher (butchered throw landings are a bad thing to happen, but it's a less mistake than a fall.).
I'm sure we won't agree, but you aren't talking to a wall, we just don't agree with you and we have our reasons.

Why would their PCS increase without the fall? Would the choreography would be better without a fall? Or skating skills? They fell, they got penalized on TES. Some may argue performance/execution mark gets affected by the fall, but the rest? Ziggy just explained why having more in between the elements takes away some of the speed.It's easier to be fast when there are less transitions. You have less speed or less ice coverage you get lower SS. You have more intricate choreo and transitions, you should get reworded for it also. I agree V/T have better twist, they got more points for it. Having a better 3twist has nothing to do with PCS though.
 

Redstone

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Why would their PCS increase without the fall? Would the choreography would be better without a fall? Or skating skills? They fell, they got penalized on TES. Some may argue performance/execution mark gets affected by the fall, but the rest? Ziggy just explained why having more in between the elements takes away some of the speed.It's easier to be fast when there are less transitions. You have less speed or less ice coverage you get lower SS. You have more intricate choreo and transitions, you should get reworded for it also. I agree V/T have better twist, they got more points for it. Having a better 3twist has nothing to do with PCS though.

No, but that what the judges do. Check out the protocols for this season - that looks like a trend nowdays. And again, I don't agree that transitions reduce general ice coverage and speed. Some - of corse, but not that much (maybe the problem is with rather slow Bolero music, idk). And it's totally my opinion, but I think V/T have better edges.
 

galchonok1729

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Ziggy,

Looking at your comment it seems that the transitions should be the most important to be rewarded and actually interpretation and the speed are actually should not be very significant. So may be in this case the skaters just need to chose a calm melody for their performance and move slowly with the programm full of transitions and this will bring them a victory.. actually I watched SS programm carefully and in the case of transitions I can agree with you partly that there were more transitions in their program than in VT's but still there was no such a crutial difference in this aspect in my opinion or that HUGE difference that you saw. And besides while watching SS programm I did not feel intensity in it, it did not start to be built to the end as actually Bolero is supposed to be. Actually I agree with the euronews commentator who said that it left him cold as if there were no emotions in them when there were skating it. But still it is my subjective opinion and even with those transitions I did not see anything extraordinary and new for what SS should be specially rewarded. Besides I always thought that presentation it is not just moving in rythm with the music but to show the emotions, to be intense and expresive besides costume play a role (may be just for the spectacular, I do not know if it influence the judges). I guess that to get the high presentation mark it should be somehow the whole package and the mood as well. And concerning other aspects I liked VT more. But the tastes differ and it is always like this.
 
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