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Thread: Is Plushenko Too Old For This Sport?

  1. #61
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    I also agree that there's significant hype based on a fall. Considering that Plushenko's injury has plagued him, he has been remarkably resilient and brave. I don't see why this is even a question of him being too old for this sport. The answer is: "No, he isn't. He won the 2012 Europeans. He won the 2013 Russian nationals less than a month prior to Euros - and skated quite well, landing the quad/3A. He had a bad competition at Europeans, and needs time to recover." If he has a streak of showing up to the next few competitions and implodes, maybe then we can start questioning if he's too old for the sport.

    And those who are questioning Plushenko as having "only one" gold medal are being ridiculous. He is the only skater in the modern history of the sport to have won 3 Olympic medals which is a stunning feat. Most countries have never won a single men's gold. Won the most Euro titles, won the most Russian titles (Russia arguably being one of the hardest countries for men's skating). That's over 15 years of staying in contention and winning ISU/GP medals! And really, his second gold was victim to the CoP system in Vancouver... everyone knows he had the most difficult technical skates and flawless ones at that (but Evan was the better overall skater and deserved the win under CoP rules).

    I'm by no means a huge fan of his actual skating (I think his choreography is rarely creative/inspiring, and he could be much more elegant and less mechanical), but arguably he is the best and most consistent technical skater of all time. wallylutz, to ridicule his chances of a medal at Sochi, after such an illustrious career and when his intention is to compete and end his career in his home country (obviously he is going out there to put out his best performance and try to place as high as he can), is deplorably disrespectful considering what he has done for the sport.
    Last edited by CanadianSkaterGuy; 01-28-2013 at 11:36 AM.

  2. #62
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
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    Wallylutz - so let me get this straight:

    One the one hand, he is so injured that he will have to spend the rest of his life on crutches - and on the other, he isn't injured at all?

    So - which is it?

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    Plushenko is hardly the greatest technical skater of all time. He is a great jumper but jumps are not the only technical elements. His spins were, for the most part, an embarassment. He was forced to improve them under CoP, but he's no Stephane Lambiel, and his footwork skills are suprisingly weak for someone with such strong basic skating. Technically, Yagudin was overall, the better skater, as are any of the top 3 today, because they do everything well, not just jumps.

    It's so much easier to be consistent with the jumps when you're not doing anything else.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Plushenko is hardly the greatest technical skater of all time. He is a great jumper but jumps are not the only technical elements. His spins were, for the most part, an embarassment. He was forced to improve them under CoP, but he's no Stephane Lambiel, and his footwork skills are suprisingly weak for someone with such strong basic skating. Technically, Yagudin was overall, the better skater, as are any of the top 3 today, because they do everything well, not just jumps.

    It's so much easier to be consistent with the jumps when you're not doing anything else.
    This is your opinion. Go to this thread http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...Alexei-Yagudin

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    Jeez! Some people act like Plushenko would have robbed their gold medals, thanks God I don't live in Canada! (no offense to the decent Canadian FS fans).
    I hope wallylutz and Dragonlady know each other personally, they're a mach made in heaven!
    Last edited by ciocio; 01-28-2013 at 03:35 PM.

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    Plushenko did get level 4 spins and steps. When he gets level 4 spins and steps it is not considered good but when others do it is. You don't like the spins but they got the highest scores he fulfilled all the requirements to get the high scores. You don't like the way they look so you call him horrible and spins and steps? LOL. No he is the best of all time and actually all 3 competing now are not up to his level in cosistency or titles.

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    As someone who had cheered for Yagudin in 1998 and 2002, it is sad to see that his name only get to be mentioned in a Plushenko thread. The guy is an Olympic Champion, and how come so many want to reduce him to "Plushenko's rival"? Doesn't he deserve some love just being Yagudin?

    Plushenko's spin is definitely not Lambiel level, but count how many can beat Lambiel in spins? Why people should agree with you that his spin is an embarrassment, just because you live in the "brink of insanity"? Plushenko brought the Biellmann spin and the donut spin into Men's figure skating, now many male skaters are doing them in competition. How many can boast of introducing new moves to the field?

    Oh sure, his "footwork skills are surprisingly weak"! Make all sorts of claims as you want, the joke is clearly on you.

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Plushenko is hardly the greatest technical skater of all time. He is a great jumper but jumps are not the only technical elements. His spins were, for the most part, an embarassment. He was forced to improve them under CoP, but he's no Stephane Lambiel, and his footwork skills are suprisingly weak for someone with such strong basic skating. Technically, Yagudin was overall, the better skater, as are any of the top 3 today, because they do everything well, not just jumps.

    It's so much easier to be consistent with the jumps when you're not doing anything else.
    I love this revisionist history, in which Plushenko never did a level 4 spin, never did level 4 steps, never accomplished anything of note except jumping (thank god for Mishin, right?), apparently because he does not fit the Canadian ideal of what a skater should be. Frankly I think you and Wallylutz are embarrassing yourselves by insisting that there was no merit to Plushenko's skating, though I'll give you credit for at least sticking to the skating, unlike Wallylutz.

    I think what Plushenko accomplished is especially impressive considering he was not trained for the IJS and had the judging system switched on him well into his career. This is a challenge that Yagudin did not have to face, and there's no way of knowing if he would have handled it better than Plushenko. And I say this as someone who was firmly on the Yags side of the Yagudin-Plushenko rivalry.

    BTW, Lambiel didn't always get level 4s on his spins, either. When he debuted Poeta he had a level 3 in there, and he had no level 4s in his winning LP at 2006 Worlds (the last spin was a level 2), while noted spin specialist Alban Preaubert got all level 4s. Spin levels are not necessarily the best measure of a spin's difficulty or quality.

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    It's not just Canada but United States too. Plushenko is just Kevin Van Der Perren or something but because he is from Russia he won titles. If he wasn't from Russia or something his career would be like maybe if not Van Der Perren than Chengjiang Li. Plushenko is just another Chengjiang Li.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It's not just Canada but United States too. Plushenko is just Kevin Van Der Perren or something but because he is from Russia he won titles. If he wasn't from Russia or something his career would be like maybe if not Van Der Perren than Chengjiang Li. Plushenko is just another Chengjiang Li.
    Van der Perren and Li are two of the most under-rated skaters around. And don't forget, the U.S. had its own Timothy Goebel.

  12. #72
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^I saw Kevin in the reception while calling a taxi and told him how much I missed him in short program. He smiled and said it is his first year after 14 years not participating at Euros and it feels strange not competing. Then I left cause he might have thought I m a stalker.

    Seing Plush falling was a privellege I hope I wont see again, but if he falls with that frequence I m pretty fine. Audience really gasped and I thought the lady in front of me would faint! It crossed my mind he would withdraw the moment he made his step sequence a party. But this is why i like him afterall.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Plushenko is hardly the greatest technical skater of all time. He is a great jumper but jumps are not the only technical elements. His spins were, for the most part, an embarassment. He was forced to improve them under CoP, but he's no Stephane Lambiel, and his footwork skills are suprisingly weak for someone with such strong basic skating. Technically, Yagudin was overall, the better skater, as are any of the top 3 today, because they do everything well, not just jumps.

    It's so much easier to be consistent with the jumps when you're not doing anything else.
    So your favorite skater is someone who has better spin than Lambiel, has strong basic skating, technically good as Yagudin? OMG! I have never seen such a skater with an ultimate-complete package!!!! I want to know who is him!! I am sure it is NOT Patrick, Daisuke, Yuzuru and Javi!! They are also don't have such combined abilities! Why your favorite Mr.Perfect doesn't compete at ISU competition!?
    :P


    Seriously, Plushenko is one of the greatest skaters ever and "not just jumps". Even the painful SP in Zagreb, his edgework was praised by Japanese specialist.... His reputations from experts are far from your opinion. Pay more respect for all skaters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I love this revisionist history, in which Plushenko never did a level 4 spin, never did level 4 steps, never accomplished anything of note except jumping (thank god for Mishin, right?), apparently because he does not fit the Canadian ideal of what a skater should be. Frankly I think you and Wallylutz are embarrassing yourselves by insisting that there was no merit to Plushenko's skating, though I'll give you credit for at least sticking to the skating, unlike Wallylutz.

    I think what Plushenko accomplished is especially impressive considering he was not trained for the IJS and had the judging system switched on him well into his career. This is a challenge that Yagudin did not have to face, and there's no way of knowing if he would have handled it better than Plushenko. And I say this as someone who was firmly on the Yags side of the Yagudin-Plushenko rivalry.

    BTW, Lambiel didn't always get level 4s on his spins, either. When he debuted Poeta he had a level 3 in there, and he had no level 4s in his winning LP at 2006 Worlds (the last spin was a level 2), while noted spin specialist Alban Preaubert got all level 4s. Spin levels are not necessarily the best measure of a spin's difficulty or quality.
    You are a great commentator here. I always enjoy reading your sagacious posts.

    Plushenko's SP at 2013 Euros is the worst performance in his glorious skating career I have ever seen. I was really shocked to see him falling on a 3axel, one of his trademark jumps, during the Mens' SP competitions in Zagreb. Under such poor physical conditions, I think his participation in the 2013 Euros is a strategic mistake prior to the Sochi Olympics. He should not risk his own precious health to perform nearly impossible tasks at competitions. Experience and courage alone are not always enough at some critical moments. Possibly he had wished to take chances to repeat the same success as in Sheffield, but this time, he underestimated the situation. Of course, this is not the end of the story. I firmly believe that Plushenko will surely fight back, strongly and confidently, next season, because his inglorious defeat in Zagreb is absolutely unacceptable to him, a way too proud former Olympic champion.

    When it comes to the skating side, I think each established skater has their own unique styles, and Plushenko is no exception to that. Actually his team is fully aware of his weaknesses in skating, program choreography, or whatever, but, to bring his new programs to the so-called artistic perfection, to completely change the jump lay-outs and meanwhile, add quite a few transitional steps between them is just an impossible mission for a 30-year-old skater, who is famous for the accurate execution of the technical elements in his programs at competitions of various importance. As a matter of fact, Plushenko is a very artistic, but at the same time, very powerful skater. After watching the performances of both the silver & bronze medal winners in Zagreb, I have to say that they are simply incomparable to shining Plushenko in every aspect of the skating.
    Last edited by Thawingiceberg; 01-29-2013 at 01:50 AM.

  15. #75
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    I still remember in the good old days how North American commentators gushing about Plushenko's skating skills, saying that "there is something special about his skating", that he can "gain speed with one or two pushes while others take ten". And how they rave about his perfectly stretched line in his camel spin.

    How many times Simon and Chris from EuroSport talked about his footwork, saying it has edges of the highest quality?

    Plushenko has been on the top of the sport for more than a decade. If he achieved that by only being a jumping machine, and not necessarily a good one per some posters here, how does it reflect on those who competed with him?
    Last edited by lilywang; 01-29-2013 at 03:42 AM.

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