Is Plushenko Too Old For This Sport?

**amber68** · 02-01-2013, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy

No, what Jammers is saying is that Yagudin was an all-rounded skater, which the CoP system rewards. So theoretically, had he skated in CoP he would have done well because he had no major weaknesses.

Yagudin was an all-around 6.0 skater. Someone in this thread mentioned that he had lots of spin variations. Really? Which were these spins variation?
Or his fans keep saying how great was his choreography or footwork. These are just myths. Yagudins’s choreography , though pleasant to watch, was exactly the typical 6.0 choreography: front-loaded programs, with cross-overs between elements and lots of posing. The same goes for footwork: fast, quick steps but no edgework.

Please remove the rose-coloured glasses, watch his programs again and let us know what do you think about spins, footwork, coreography, transitions (he had exactly the same amount of transitions as Plushenko , yet Yagudin is regarded as the one having intricate programs...).
And I am not saying all these to criticize Yagudin. He was a very good skater who did exactly what was required of him to win under 6.0 system.,
But let’s not fantasize about his skills.

**ciocio** · 02-01-2013, 02:34 AM

I agree, Yagudin was a 6.0 skater and that's why he was so successful, he did what he had to do. Obviously it doesn't mean he wasn't a great skater, Takahashi's Chan's, Hanyu's programs will probably look silly too in the future.

**amber68** · 02-01-2013, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by ciocio

I agree, Yagudin was a 6.0 skater and that's why he was so successful, he did what he had to do. Obviously it doesn't mean he wasn't a great skater, Takahashi's Chan's, Hanyu's programs will probably look silly too in the future.

Of course. But le'ts not pretend that all his skills (like spins, footwork) transceded the 6.0 system .
The same goes for MIchelle Kwan

**Evgenia** · 02-01-2013, 04:52 AM

I hope someday those Yagudin's fans can find a thread with Yagudin's name. Not Plushy thread. By the way, I think I have to post the protocols of Medal Winners Open and Japan Open which Yags took part.
http://www.skatingjapan.jp/InterNati...o/data0105.pdf
http://www.jsfresults.com/InterNatio...o/data0105.pdf

**Buttercup** · 02-01-2013, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by ciocio

I agree, Yagudin was a 6.0 skater and that's why he was so successful, he did what he had to do. Obviously it doesn't mean he wasn't a great skater, Takahashi's Chan's, Hanyu's programs will probably look silly too in the future.

Originally Posted by amber68

Of course. But le'ts not pretend that all his skills (like spins, footwork) transceded the 6.0 system .
The same goes for MIchelle Kwan

6.0 skaters did what they had to do to succeed in that period; we can't say for sure how they would have fared under the IJS (early or current version). We've seen skaters make the transition with varying levels of success: Takahashi and Kostner started out in the old system, but their skating works well with the current one, while Joubert made some adjustments and has been quite successful, but probably would have done better under the old system. KvdP remained a 6.0 skater at heart, as did Johnny Weir. Kwan I wouldn't count, since she only skated once under the IJS.

I think Plushenko, like Joubert, has taken a mixed approach, making some adjustments but retaining the core of what he was as a 6.0 skater. It's worked well for him, obviously.

I hope his recovery will go well. At least winter in Israel should be much nicer than in Russia

**plushyfan** · 02-01-2013, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by amber68

Yagudin was an all-around 6.0 skater. Someone in this thread mentioned that he had lots of spin variations. Really? Which were these spins variation?
Or his fans keep saying how great was his choreography or footwork. These are just myths. Yagudins’s choreography , though pleasant to watch, was exactly the typical 6.0 choreography: front-loaded programs, with cross-overs between elements and lots of posing. The same goes for footwork: fast, quick steps but no edgework.

Please remove the rose-coloured glasses, watch his programs again and let us know what do you think about spins, footwork, coreography, transitions (he had exactly the same amount of transitions as Plushenko , yet Yagudin is regarded as the one having intricate programs...).
And I am not saying all these to criticize Yagudin. He was a very good skater who did exactly what was required of him to win under 6.0 system.,
But let’s not fantasize about his skills.

I was really curious, I wached Yagudin's programs again after the debate in this thread. and I can't see that fantastic spins and footworks. I think his footworks were interesting and showy but isn't hard, and wasn't harder like Plushy's. That was great skating from a fantastic skater.

**Olympia** · 02-01-2013, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Buttercup

6.0 skaters did what they had to do to succeed in that period; we can't say for sure how they would have fared under the IJS (early or current version). We've seen skaters make the transition with varying levels of success: Takahashi and Kostner started out in the old system, but their skating works well with the current one, while Joubert made some adjustments and has been quite successful, but probably would have done better under the old system. KvdP remained a 6.0 skater at heart, as did Johnny Weir. Kwan I wouldn't count, since she only skated once under the IJS.

I think Plushenko, like Joubert, has taken a mixed approach, making some adjustments but retaining the core of what he was as a 6.0 skater. It's worked well for him, obviously.

I hope his recovery will go well. At least winter in Israel should be much nicer than in Russia

Well put, Buttercup.

Clearly, many people, including many Plushenko fans, admire Yagudin. They can't all be misguided. The fact that he was a splendid skater doesn't take away an iota from Plushenko's marvelous skating.

In general, I'm never comfortable judging earlier skaters by current standards, because they were not training to current standards. John Curry, Peggy Fleming, and Janet Lynn were astonishing, groundbreaking skaters, even though modern fans might find them strange to look at because their jumps were mostly doubles. Had they grown up today, clearly they would not be doubling all their jumps. (By the way, speaking of the current demand for unusual entries into and exits from jumps, Peggy Fleming was well known in 1968 for doing a spread eagle-double axel-spread eagle combination. I'm just saying.)

One of Plushenko's traits as a top skater is his very longevity. It's become a quality of his skating itself, because it's what has allowed him to deepen and diversify his technique and presentation. In this, he's very like the singer Tom Jones, who at 72 has the same jet-engine voice he had at 32 but can now back this fabulous instrument with life experience and a broader taste in music. Plushenko could never have skated some of his recent programs back when he was 18 and 19. This longevity and endurance has given him the luxury of being able to retool himself as a CoP skater. It's benefited him, but it's also enriched skating. Every skating fan is better off when we have someone like him as part of a sport, whether we adore him or not. He brings it to another level. But it does not make Yagudin any less of a splendid skater in his time. It does not need to.

**let`s talk** · 02-01-2013, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Evgenia

I hope someday those Yagudin's fans can find a thread with Yagudin's name.

They can't. And they won't. Because obviously judging by this thread the only reason to mention Yag is his ex-status of Plu's rival

. It makes him look like a loser. But why should we stop his fans from doing that

.

Meanwhile Plu is already walking a little in his hospital's chamber. Probably it's some kind of doc's advice to move the muscles with that new stuff in his back, or whatever. http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130201/642755876.html
Tonight at 21:00 the Channel One in Russia will show a short vid from the clinic in the evening news, probably a couple of minutes (Zhenya needs rest!). The channel is easy to find online (or check Plu's 30-anniversary show thread for links) but I am sure the vid will be on youtube the same instant.

**plushyfan** · 02-01-2013, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by let`s talk

They can't. And they won't. Because obviously judging by this thread the only reason to mention Yag is his ex-status of Plu's rival

. It makes him look like a loser. But why should we stop his fans from doing that

.

Meanwhile Plu is already walking a little in his hospital's chamber. Probably it's some kind of doc's advice to move the muscles with that new stuff in his back, or whatever. http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130201/642755876.html
Tonight at 21:00 the Channel One in Russia will show a short vid from the clinic in the evening news, probably a couple of minutes (Zhenya needs rest!). The channel is easy to find online (or check Plu's 30-anniversary show thread for links) but I am sure the vid will be on youtube the same instant.

In 21:00 "1TV" in program "Время" (Time) will show the story about Evgeni from the hospital!

Tv Schedule: http://www.1tv.ru/shed/ (21:00, Moscow time)

Live Stream:
http://stream.1tv.ru/live

And the gossip is funny and incredible..Plushy is too big star..even the Israelian media is dealing with it, and wrote absurd stupidity.

**seniorita** · 02-01-2013, 02:08 PM

Russian Federation announcement about the surgery
Video of Plush in hospital

I think I m in a capsule and back in 2005...

**LRK** · 02-01-2013, 04:43 PM

@Olympia - You expressed it so beautifully - Thank you!

@Let's talk - plushyfan - seniorita - Thank you so much for sharing all this info! I remember when I used to try to trawl the internet for information - with mixed to middling success, not being very good at it - but now, thanks to all of you, I don't have to. I'm so glad we have you! Oh, I watched the video from the hospital - I hope someone who knows Russian translates what Plushy said, when they have the time - I'd be truly grateful!

**plushyfan** · 02-01-2013, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by LRK

@Olympia - You expressed it so beautifully - Thank you!

@Let's talk - plushyfan - seniorita - Thank you so much for sharing all this info! I remember when I used to try to trawl the internet for information - with mixed to middling success, not being very good at it - but now, thanks to all of you, I don't have to. I'm so glad we have you! Oh, I watched the video from the hospital - I hope someone who knows Russian translates what Plushy said, when they have the time - I'd be truly grateful!

translate:

TV girl: The famous Russian figure skater Evgeni Plushenko who had to withdraw from the European Championship in Zagreb, was operated in the clinic in Israel. Our correspondent could meet him a few hours after the surgery. Evgeni said that before and during EC he was in pain, didn' feel his legs and couldn't properly train.

Plu: Now I am feeling like after the operation. Of course I feel some pain but in general I feel good. My attempt to skate at Euro was a risk. But I have always been a risky athlete who is going to his goal no matter how much it takes.

TV girl: Now Plu and his team are thinking about Sochi, if he can compete there at the proper level.

Doctor: I think with what spine I saw it's difficult to live, not to skate only. I think he is a person of a real will if he could skate with such pain. He had a severe distruction of his disk, but not the disk only. His intervertebral joints, connecting cords were all in awful conditions.

TV girl: Usually people after such an operation can barely leave the bed. But Evgeni started walking.

Plu (smiling happily): You see, they operated me yesterday, but today I can walk a little.

TV girl: The detailed report from Israel' clinic see tomorrow in our News progs.

and
Olympia is always amazing

**plushyfan** · 02-01-2013, 04:50 PM

double post

**LRK** · 02-01-2013, 05:04 PM

Wow! "Ask and you shall receive" - plushyfan, you're a gem.

ETA - And Plushy... well, he's just Plushy. I don't know why, but I've had this (Babylon 5) quote in my head today: "If you love, love without reservation. If you fight, fight without fear."