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Thread: 2013 Europeans Ladies - Short Program

  1. #241
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    I first have to congratulate Adelina for finally putting together a clean sp. Im not really a fan of her, but i cannot deny that she was good and deserves the first place

    HOWEVER

    I believe that Carolina was under-scored in components (exception of transitions) . For Carolina to only be .5 above sotnikova in skating skills is an outrage. Kostner in my opinion has the best skating skills in the worlds and was not rewarded here. Im not saying she should be getting 10.0 ,but for her to be getting 8.00 and lower for her components is ridiculous.

    I do not believe Kostner should be winning, however she deserves more in components giving a score of 66.5 or something

    Really hope kostner is rewarding in components in the long. Except for transitions because we all know she has none if the free

  2. #242
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    I agree with people who say Carolina's PCS should be higher. I have never understood and probably will never understand why in all other disciplines, judges hand out 9s in PCS to the top skaters like candy. And here you have a skater with such excellent basic skating and programs and she is still stuck in the low 8s and even 7s. It doesn't make sense to me AT ALL.

    Posters who say that she has no transitions or not enough transitions should watch this short program again carefully. I just did and focused only on transitions and linking movements and how those movements are timed to the music. It's incredibly well done and extremely difficult:

    1. She does three turns right into her solo jump, the 3loop. Those turns and the take off of the jumps are timed exactly to the music, which is hard do. She holds the landing position longer than others (which can't be interpreted as no transition) and it is followed by transitions moves that match the music again: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=1m26s

    2. She gains speed for her 3-3 and has no transitions into it, but this is about the only transition-less period in her short. Again, she has linking moves and steps out of the combination: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=1m38s

    3. After the 3-3 she does steps straight into the flying camel. Again, those three turns are timed exactly to the music: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=1m56s

    4. Transitions go in and out of her 2a even if there is a break before the take off (it's a little telegraphed) - but if you notice, she gains speed through steps only, there is just 1 (!) crossover there: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=1m56s

    5. The rest of the program and moves are also very well connected to each other - she uses one crossover only after the straightline sequence, but the speed mostly comes from her steps: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=2m47s

    Conclusion: She telegraphs her 3-3 and her 2a (only a little though) but the rest of the program has plenty of transitions and linking moves. The most impressive thing for me is that she really doesn't do many crossovers to gain speed. Her edges and basic skating are that good.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggs View Post
    I agree with people who say Carolina's PCS should be higher. I have never understood and probably will never understand why in all other disciplines, judges hand out 9s in PCS to the top skaters like candy. And here you have a skater with such excellent basic skating and programs and she is still stuck in the low 8s and even 7s. It doesn't make sense to me AT ALL.

    Posters who say that she has no transitions or not enough transitions should watch this short program again carefully. I just did and focused only on transitions and linking movements and how those movements are timed to the music. It's incredibly well done and extremely difficult:

    1. She does three turns right into her solo jump, the 3loop. Those turns and the take off of the jumps are timed exactly to the music, which is hard do. She holds the landing position longer than others (which can't be interpreted as no transition) and it is followed by transitions moves that match the music again: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=1m26s

    2. She gains speed for her 3-3 and has no transitions into it, but this is about the only transition-less period in her short. Again, she has linking moves and steps out of the combination: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=1m38s

    3. After the 3-3 she does steps straight into the flying camel. Again, those three turns are timed exactly to the music: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=1m56s

    4. Transitions go in and out of her 2a even if there is a break before the take off (it's a little telegraphed) - but if you notice, she gains speed through steps only, there is just 1 (!) crossover there: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=1m56s

    5. The rest of the program and moves are also very well connected to each other - she uses one crossover only after the straightline sequence, but the speed mostly comes from her steps: http://youtu.be/FvTqYYU59Ow?t=2m47s

    Conclusion: She telegraphs her 3-3 and her 2a (only a little though) but the rest of the program has plenty of transitions and linking moves. The most impressive thing for me is that she really doesn't do many crossovers to gain speed. Her edges and basic skating are that good.
    ITA with everything in here.

    She does a perfect triple loop with both the difficult entrance and the difficult exit. Moreover, there's good height, flow in and out and the whole thing is matched to the music perfectly. For me iy very well might be +3 for grade of execution.

  4. #244
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Here's Osmond 3T3T
    she had more transitions going into the jump but less in the exit of jump.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FeNF...tailpage#t=40s

    Here's her solo jump
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FeNF...tailpage#t=40s
    again, exit transition was very simple.

    here's the 2A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FeNF...tailpage#t=40s
    spread eagle into the jump, no exit transition.

    I don't see how anyone can claim Osmond had a lot of transitions and Kostner is transition-less. From the video, Kostner's transitions are more difficult, and go very well with the program. Osmond's is cookie cutter transitions that are in every single programs and doesn't make one different from another.

    Let's get real. If Kostner had little to no transitions, then everyone else should get 4s or 5s for transition.

    Kostner isn't rewarded enough for her CH, IN, PE, and especially SS. She never get higher than 9 for SS. Never get 9s for CH, IN. I think she was robbed after the SP here.
    Sorry, I'm a huge Kostner fan, but it's stupid to put down Osmond's level of transitions in her SP just to make Carolina look better. It's not true and there's no need. (Why are you only mentioning the exit transitions anyway? It's the entrance steps that really increase the difficulty of the jumps.) They are so many things that make Carolina the best skater in the world and transitions is just ONE part of skating.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Sorry, I'm a huge Kostner fan, but it's stupid to put down Osmond's level of transitions in her SP just to make Carolina look better. It's not true and there's no need. (Why are you only mentioning the exit transitions anyway? It's the entrance steps that really increase the difficulty of the jumps.) They are so many things that make Carolina the best skater in the world and transitions is just ONE part of skating.
    Who is putting down Osmond's level of transitions. Since a lot of people have been saying Osmond has amazing transitions, I just want to show that Carolina has similar or more. It's true and there's a need because there are certain people who think she was doing element by element with nothing in between just because some jumps appear to have longer setup.

    Why am I only mentioning exit transition? Because it counts just as much.
    If you do entrance steps, but neglect the exit steps, then how do you have superior transitions? transition is linking, so both are equally important. And why are you bringing up the difficulty of the jump? We are talking transitions here.

    Transitions/Linking Footwork & Movement
    Definition: The varied and/or intricate footwork, positions, movements and holds that link all elements. In singles, pairs and synchronized skating, this also includes the entrances and exits of technical elements.

    Criteria:
    Variety
    Difficulty
    Intricacy
    The variety, difficulty, and intricacy of Carolina's transitions should put her ahead of anyone else.

  6. #246
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Who is putting down Osmond's level of transitions. Since a lot of people have been saying Osmond has amazing transitions, I just want to show that Carolina has similar or more. It's true and there's a need because there are certain people who think she was doing element by element with nothing in between just because some jumps appear to have longer setup.

    Why am I only mentioning exit transition? Because it counts just as much.
    If you do entrance steps, but neglect the exit steps, then how do you have superior transitions? transition is linking, so both are equally important. And why are you bringing up the difficulty of the jump? We are talking transitions here.
    The enty steps make a jump difficult because they reduce setup time and--if there are turns in the opposite direction to the jump rotations that precede the jump--it greatly reduces the momentum of the jump setup and requires better technique and power. The exit steps are simply a testimony of the jump being well done.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    The enty steps make a jump difficult because they reduce setup time and--if there are turns in the opposite direction to the jump rotations that precede the jump--it greatly reduces the momentum of the jump setup and requires better technique and power. The exit steps are simply a testimony of the jump being well done.
    Agreed. The entrance steps are what make a jump difficult due to the set-up time and being "Checked" in position to execute the jump. The exit transitions are a mark of confidence to how you can have the guts to tack on some transitions at the end of a jump. If the jump is flawed, the transitions can't go in.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I meant it sounds likes we will never see Leonova again with Lipinskaia joining Adeline and Liza. Poor Alean and Makarova. Just sort of disappeared in one year.
    Given how they skated this season, would you like to see them again? :P

    Quote Originally Posted by jiggs View Post
    Conclusion: She telegraphs her 3-3 and her 2a (only a little though) but the rest of the program has plenty of transitions and linking moves. The most impressive thing for me is that she really doesn't do many crossovers to gain speed. Her edges and basic skating are that good.
    Yep, that's exactly what it was.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I meant it sounds likes we will never see Leonova again with Lipinskaia joining Adeline and Liza. Poor Alean and Makarova. Just sort of disappeared in one year.
    I do have a slight soft spot for Alena because she did deliver quite a lot for Russia. However in general, I'm not sure why we should feel sorry for either girl. Both girls have had quite a lot of opportunities, and they have had opportunities because other girls were to young to compete at Worlds/Olympics (girls who could have placed just as well if not better)

    Both of them have had quite a long time to know what was coming down the pipeline and what they needed to do to be competitive. You can feel sorry for them but right now there's a whole gaggle of Russian female skaters, a lot of whom will never make it out of Russia. And I'm not convinced either Ksensia or Alena are better skaters than a lot of them... Point being both girls have had quite a lot of opportunities. So considering whats coming down the pipeline for people like Nikki (stuck in Russias with no way to come out) i'm not sure why we should feel so sorry for Ksensia or Alena both who had the opportunity to go to several worlds and the Olympics....

    In four years the Russians are going to have to leave one of Sotnikova, Tukt, Julia, and Radionova at home....

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