its more like her technical merit is not deservingOriginally Posted by Mao88
she reminds me of Lepisto
its more like her technical merit is not deserving
she reminds me of Lepisto
The hype with Tara started before she even reached the World podium; she was 15th at Worlds when it (arguably) all started. Michelle began her ascension in an Olympic year (1993-94) and been 7th at Skate America and 2nd at Nationals AND the Michelle-Tara rivalry certainly benefited from the Tonya-Nancy fiasco.
And we all know the story of Mao and Yuna anyway (triple axel; never finishing off the podium-- fine, okay).
Last edited by aftertherain; 01-25-2013 at 03:38 PM.
I--and I quote myself--said "peace and non-quiet."I think she's just gotten used to the noise at this point. And yes, being around with friends and family in close proximity does give many people a sense of peace.
It could have been both. But yeah, the quality of the ice rinks in S. Korea were said to be abysmal.
I would definitely put Michelle and Tara in the "lived up to their hype" category, although Tara's career was disappointingly, too short.
Just joined the Forums, from the ISU forums, hi all.
As far as Osmond's hype, people say she is being overhyped but this is due to her being consistent in her performances and results. Canadians was blatant inflation, but regardless she would have won. However Nebelhorn (where she beat Sotnikova, currently leading at Europeans) and Skate Canada (where she beat the world bronze medalist in Suzuki, after Suzuki had a poor SP) show that she's able to deliver in high pressure situations against top skater. This is not something that is typical of Canadian ladies skaters. People are touting her as the next Joannie because in such a short period of time, she has been able to develop strong jumps, a consistent 3-3 combination, and shows attack and vivaciousness in her skating.
As far as her technical merit being deserving, that is TES determined by how she executes jumps which is verified by technical specialists - the GOE on her jumps is often deserved, too.... She doesn't telegraph her jumps, puts transitions into them, and gets good spring and flow on the exit. Her coach, Ravi Walia, is a technical specialist and thus ensures that she's performing elements cleanly, except her flutz and an occasional lip. Her jumps are fully rotated, sometimes even over-rotated. Her spins could use improvement, but she's still obtaining good levels on them. Regardless of whether it was Nationals, Challenge, Skate Canada, she has put together three clean short programs (almost 4 at Nebelhorn), which no skater has done this season.
You can't deny that she's skating far better than anyone could have expected. Until she starts doing really poorly, I don't think anyone's at liberty of saying she's overhyped when she's actually matching the hype that she's getting.
Last edited by CanadianSkaterGuy; 01-25-2013 at 05:03 PM.
Savchenko & Szolkowy
Tara Lipinski
Bobrova & Soloviev
Patrick Chan
Katarina Witt
Nancy Kerrigan (even though I think she was robbed of the 94 Olympic Gold, most of her career she was overscored, overhyped, and overrated)
Oksana Bauil
Shen & Zhao
Zhang & Zhang (from 2005-fall of 2008, while being underscored and underrated from winter 2009-retirement and fall 2004 to earlier, a wierd combination)
Johnny Weir (not overscored, just overhyped by skating fans and journalists)
Fusar-Poli & Margalio
Lobacheva & Averbuhk
Woetzel & Steuer
Michelle Kwan (she is amazing, but not the god she was and is still potrayed as)
Miki Ando
Proclaiming someone will be the best thing to happen ice skating since the zamboni does nothing but attract negative attention the skater. So far Kaetlyn has done well...she's had a number of strong skates and achieved good results. Let her be happy with those victories and wish her well in her remaining competitions.
If what's going on with Gracie Gold has told us anything it's that over-hyping someone usually ends badly. Not only is it generating extra pressure for the skater to perform, but over-saturating the boards with how wonderful someone is and how badly they'll kick everyone's @$$ and how no one can compare to them generates some ill-will toward the skater from other fans.
I was sick of Gracie long before she debuted at SC thanks to all the send Gracie to worlds/Gracie's the best/Gracie is God crap that happened around nationals last year. People were hailing her as the second coming and she wasn't even a senior yet. Fans get too excited...
Please don't do the same thing to Kaetlyn. I really like Kaetlyn right now and I enjoy her skating; but the ceaseless promotion and comparisons in every single thread by some of Kaetlyn's more enthusiastic/overzealous fans is starting to touch a nerve with people. You think you're helping but what you're really doing is annoying the hell out of everyone and making them resent her...
All of the skaters I mentioned lived up to the hype, those who have retired at least. Sasha Cohen may take the record for the most-hyped skater in history and she never achieved anything close to what was predicted for her. Over hyped skaters aren't necessarily bad skaters, it's just I think it unwise to brag on stuff you haven't done yet, which Sasha was really big on doing: I'm going to land the first quad, win the Olympic Gold Medal and retire, like Tara. I'd rather a skater do a thing, and then brag on it, like Kurt landing the first quad. The sad thing is that the only titles Sasha achieved is one US Championship and one GPF Championship when Irina's mother.*Ahem* as a totally biased YuNa fan, I must disagree! Overhyped, psshhh, nahh! She was hyped alright, but she sure lived (lives!) up to it.
Oh, and she's back in Korea, while she's still competing. For peace and non-quiet.
+1 I agree. I won't lie and say that I really had to work hard and remind myself to base my opinion on what I see from her skating as opposed to getting influenced by one way or the other by the chatter itself.
According to his (long outdated) autobiography (and documentary Jump) Kurt WAS getting flack for mentioning that he was going to do the quad long before he finally landed it. He was very lucky to have the one he did ratified, and he didn't do very many in his career. One of his better ones was in SOI 10 years after getting into the Book of World records.
Yu-Na was extremely hyped...twice as much as Kaetlyn or Gracie at this point. The good thing was Yu-Na actually backed it up. It's not hype if the skater delivers. Yu-Na was hyped to win worlds in 2009; she did. She was hyped to win everything in 2010 including an OGM; she did. Her return is being hyped to high hell too BUT if she has a successful competition at worlds, again, it won't be hype if it's a fact.
The problem with hyping skaters is that so few actually deliver on all of the promises the hype generates. According to over eager Gracie fans' proclamations about her talent last year, Gracie should have wiped the floor with everyone at her GP events, won the Final and should be sitting well ahead of the field at nationals right now...that was the hype. Reality: she's finished 7th, 2nd, no trip to the Final, and basically imploded in the SP yesterday. She has a chance to redeem herself tomorrow but the damage has already been done. When you don't deliver on the hype, it's 10x worse and people will tear you apart.
That's why I want people to chill out a bit with Kaetlyn b/c if she does make a mistake or doesn't do well everyone who's sick of her/doesn't like her will use that failure as ammunition...
Kwanatic - I will steal this line the next time I hear about how great someone is! Thanks for the laugh!
ita
Last edited by mary01; 01-25-2013 at 05:16 PM.
I was a skeptic of Gold and I don't think I remained particularly under the radar (though I flat out post much less than a lot of people here). We did exist haha. Actually I still don't really like Gold. But that's a different issue.Re overhyping (as distinct from overrating):
About a year ago, the hype over Gracie Gold seemed to be off the charts.
And IMHO, virtually everyone seemed happy to embrace the hype. Skeptics, if any, remained under the radar. The mania was totally lopsided in her favor.
OTOH, IMHO, cheerleaders for vs. skeptics of Osmond all along have equalled each other with the intensity of their support vs. doubts, respectively.
Wishing both Osmond and Gold well as they continue with this season and future seasons. Seems safe to say that the best from each is yet to come.
(If Gold qualifies for Four Continents, Worlds, and/or WTT, will be interesting to see how they fare head to head at this point.)
I personally find it hard to get invested emotionally in young skaters. It tends to be only over the course of a career that I become invested. Once in a while, rarely (far less than once a year) a young skater or couple will strike me and I'll sort of be a fan from the get go. But for me that usually takes time, and so I really dislike all the hype in general here whenever anyone does anything remotely impressive one year.
I also agree that this thread is a bit of overkill. I would be happy to never see another Osmond thread as long as I live.
Er, mayhbe it's just me, but I'm starting to feel that the negativity thrown at Osmond is actually a little more than twice the amount of praise that I've seen for her.
Last edited by shine; 01-25-2013 at 05:34 PM.
Hello, CanadianSkaterGuy! As they say...Welcome; post long, and post often! I have seen your posts while lurking the ISU forums.
I think a common theme is that what some skating fans consider "living up to their hype" will be "falling short of their hype" for other fans. It's another subjective matter in the sport and fandom. Interesting to hear people's takes on it.
Honestly, I don't mind hype and personally it doesn't turn me against a skater just because they are hyped up. It's normal for skaters to have ups and downs. You're a huge Kwan fan, and one of the reasons why she was so respected is how scarily consistent and well she skated/competed from year to year, right?That is very, very unusual. Hiccups, off-competitions, no back-to-back clean SP & LP's, etc. are for me, no reason to be less impressed with a skater. It's is quite the norm, especially in the age of CoP.
The potential in Gracie Gold is enough for me to watch her as an upcoming top skater. There was a thread earlier on whether she could "handle the pressure" that is being put on her.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...e-the-pressure
There it is. From what I've seen of her Senior outings so far, I agree that she still seems like she's unused to the big stage. The skating fans who have seen her on the Junior circuit and in practices reported that she is steely and learns quickly, so they said I wasn't quite correct in my assessment of her competitive instincts, but it seems like she still hasn't shaken off her jitters.
Who knows how long it will take. It took YuNa right up to the Olympics to skate a clean SP & LP as a Senior.
Hmm, Sasha Cohen was skating near the end of the golden Kwan era, when there were many American fans following the sport passionately. I'm neither surprised at the hype, nor think she was "overhyped", per se. She remains one of the most exquisite skaters I've seen (I know lots of people mention her skating skills weren't as strong as other elite skaters at that level...), with performances more memorable than Hughes or Meissner (with better medals) or, so far, the current flock of Americans.
So...do you guys think hype, even if it's excessive, ever does anyone good? Sometimes I feel that it does make judges start to pay more attention and boost the marks up a bit. Plus, it may help skaters generate support and sponsors.
Last edited by prettykeys; 01-25-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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