2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies LP | Page 22 | Golden Skate

2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies LP

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
My take on Ashley's score, though, is that there are aspects of her skating that are superior to Gracie's at this point. There is a poise and maturity there that Gracie does not possess yet that rightly shows up in PCS. And Gracie's choreography is, although better than last year, still rather juniorish. Seriously, just because the music has a march beat does not mean you must pretend to march.

I have no problem with the short program counting or someone holding a lead because of a solid short. The whole game counts in every other sport. You can beat your opponent three touchdowns to none in the fourth quarter of a football game, but if they scored five to your zero in the first three quarters, no one is going to cry that it is not a sport because the best team of the fourth quarter did not win. Perhaps if television would show the short programs, fans would understand. We do get to see whole football games, after all.
 

Kissx3

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
When I saw Mirai's score and final placement, I figured out the reason the boards crashed

The boards actually crashed during Ashley's skate. Everyone rushing to talk about that meltdown all at once I guess and then the scoring kept it down long after the event. This thread would be much longer and way more popcorn-worthy if not for that.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
The boards actually crashed during Ashley's skate. Everyone rushing to talk about that meltdown all at once I guess and then the scoring kept it down long after the event. This thread would be much longer and way more popcorn-worthy if not for that.

So, it was preemptive crashing, then :D
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Perhaps if television would show the short programs, fans would understand. We do get to see whole football games, after all.

NBC did televise the short programs in the 1st hour of the broadcast last night. All of Wagner, Gold (including her premature fluff piece), Zawadzki, Hicks, Gao, and Nagasu were shown in their entirety.
 
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FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
What a surprising post coming from you .....:rolleye:

I didn't say Ashley's SP was spectacular. But yes it was very good. If not very good then good. it certainly wasn't average. As for the choreo I suppose it's a matter of taste but I adore her SP choreo and find it memorable. Definitely glad we will be seeing again at worlds.

I'm glad for you. I do think she should be sent to world.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
In fairness, the campaign to get rid of figures existed before Ito and Manley took to the ice.

OK, substitute Janet Lynn for Midori Ito. The point still stands. The SU saw that their sport was not audience friendly -- and especially not TV audience friendly -- so they set about to address that issue.

I think the ISU is fine saying it's not a spectator sport.

Then why is it on television? Why do they sell tickets and invite the public to come?

You might be right, but if so this is a departure from past principles. When Cinquanta first became president the ISU was not shy about trumpeting his business savvy in securing a US$ 20,000,000 contract for television rights in the United States.

I just received a copy of the new USFS Media Guide (thanks CC :) ), 188 glossy pages put out be the Marketing and Communications Division of USFS. Mentions how popular a television draw figure skating has been over the years, and what a wonderful opportunity if provides for corporate sponsors to jump in and promote their products through the popularity of skating as a spectator sport. Statistics about what per cent of certain desirable demographics you can reach, etc.

If figure skating does not aspire to be a spectator sport, why have a "Marketing and Communications Division" in the first place?

But you cannot invite an audience to come to your party and then ignore and insult them.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
NBC did televise the short programs in the 1st hour of the broadcast last night. All of Wagner, Gold (including her premature fluff piece), Zawadzki, Hicks, Gao, and Nagasu were shown in their entirety.

I was at the arena. :)

Typically, though, they do not. The woman sitting next to us, in fact, does not seem to comprehend that the ladies had a short program.

I would also add that for all the gnashing of teeth about Gracie's placement...in the ordinal system, she would not have been able to pull up from ninth to second at all. There is no way around it that 9+1=10 no matter how good your free skate is.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
You said that in a joking way, but yes, that is one of the problems. A skater can build up such a big lead in the short program that the LP is irrelevant. Who would pay money to go to a sporting event (the climactic U.S. Nationals Ladies Long Program -- ta da!) when you already know who is going to win, no matter how badly they perform?

Ashley didn't have that big of a lead overall. She had a big lead over Gracie, because Gracie was a mess in the short? Why have the short program if its okay to be a mess and still win? In fact many thought Gracie was overscored in the short.

The real issue here (although I haven't seen the other programs) is how Ashley was scored in the long program vs the other girls. Its pretty clear the USFSA wanted Wagner and Gold on the team. However, I think a strong argument can be made that based on Ashley's dismal long, and Gold's dismal long that neither girl deserved to be 1-2. That Gao and Hicks especially were underscored in both phases of the competition. And yes Hicks has her issues, but I dont' think Gracie is that much more artistic than Hicks. I'll have to watch Gao/Hicks. The issue here is how easy this system is to cheat. Not that the short program matters.

Maybe the short and long should be on the same night, with a half time, so than it can be on everyone's minds-how dismal Gold was in the short.
 

flutzy13

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I got the sense that Ashley was (1) very disappointed with her skate; (2) genuinely surprised at how low the judges went to Mirai. She congratulated Gracie- didn't seem all that smug to me. But then again, I always want to think the best of our ice skaters- I was devastated when I was 7 and Nancy Kerrigan did not lose graciously in 1994.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I got the sense that Ashley was (1) very disappointed with her skate; (2) genuinely surprised at how low the judges went to Mirai. She congratulated Gracie- didn't seem all that smug to me. But then again, I always want to think the best of our ice skaters- I was devastated when I was 7 and Nancy Kerrigan did not lose graciously in 1994.

Aw. you must have been a nice 7 year old. :)

Some love to tear down the winner. Ashley's getting critized for looking happy that she won. Please. I think she seems like a great girl.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I have no problem with the short program counting or someone holding a lead because of a solid short. The whole game counts in every other sport. You can beat your opponent three touchdowns to none in the fourth quarter of a football game, but if they scored five to your zero in the first three quarters, no one is going to cry that it is not a sport because the best team of the fourth quarter did not win.

This is not the only model, though. There is also the "semi-finals, then the finals" model. 6.0 was sort of like that. You "made the finals" by finishing in the top three in the short program. Then you "controlled your own destiny" in the long program -- but you still had to beat the other two in the LP no matter how well you did in the SP. And there was still some flexibility in that someone could strike from fourth or fifth with a little help from her friends. :)

Then there is the "world series" model. If you win the first game by 20 runs, the only thing that carries forward is the win. You do not get to begin the second game with a 20 run advantage.

Just saying -- someone in the iSU ought to be thinking about these things in a creative way.
 

jamie

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Aw. you must have been a nice 7 year old. :)

Some love to tear down the winner. Ashley's getting critized for looking happy that she won. Please. I think she seems like a great girl.

No US lady on the podium at worlds then. :popcorn:

They might manage 6th & 7th or 5th and 8th to bag the 3 spots back which would be good for Sochi as I think they deserve 3 spots.

Gold had really nice jumps, enjoyed them.

Wagner, well, she had a better program last year, doesn't have the jumps (no 3/3's or true lutz) and her edge work isn't all that to make up for it. Where is that US star?? Hmmmmm, Gold might medal in a few years but, there was no WOW lady in that field tonight.

How were the juniors? Any really artistic girls there?

Pairs had arguably their worst ever champion, the men's field would have been exciting if this was 1998 and now Wagner wins by default since there is no one else! I'm sad for the states :(
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
But you cannot invite an audience to come to your party and then ignore and insult them.

I haven't felt ignored or insulted. Gracie dug herself a hole in teh SP - for all the bitching going on about how the CoP gives the winner the gold in the SP - Gracie'd never have jumped up to second (and 1st in the free) if it'd been the 6.0 system. Too many awesome skates happened in the LP that would've continued to keep her down.

Unless, of course, the judges played some games to make sure their "media darling" stayed within striking distance. But of course that wouldn't *ever* happen in that system.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
I don't think that such kind of judging is good for US figure skating.

Ashley with her nice skating (is it so nice as Carolina's, Mao's, Yuna's?), but not so high technically, will meet at Worlds Carolina, Mao, Yuna with really nice skating, who work hard on complicated technical content. Kiira also works hard to have 10 triples in SP+FS.
Carolina, for example, had at Worlds-2012 3+3 combo.
Yuna has 3Lz+3T.
And also Liza and Adelina with their technical content and good (maybe not so nice as above, but not so bad) skating.

What will be result?
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I haven't felt ignored or insulted. Gracie dug herself a hole in teh SP - for all the bitching going on about how the CoP gives the winner the gold in the SP - Gracie'd never have jumped up to second (and 1st in the free) if it'd been the 6.0 system. Too many awesome skates happened in the LP that would've continued to keep her down.

Unless, of course, the judges played some games to make sure their "media darling" stayed within striking distance. But of course that wouldn't *ever* happen in that system.



Not such a big hole as she ended up a close second to Ashley....

I agree with both you and Mathman. this system sometimes leaves people feeling confused and like they didn't watch the same competition that the judges did. But there were just as many results in the old system that left fans griping. We're still arguing over Oskana/Nancy in 94 Tara/Michelle in 1998. Petrenko/Wylie 92 for some people.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I haven't felt ignored or insulted. Gracie dug herself a hole in teh SP - for all the bitching going on about how the CoP gives the winner the gold in the SP - Gracie'd never have jumped up to second (and 1st in the free) if it'd been the 6.0 system. Too many awesome skates happened in the LP that would've continued to keep her down.

I don't know, Toni. There were just so many programs that I enjoyed more than the winner's. Yasmin Saraj, for instance. Skater after skater tore the roof off the place. I was thinking, this is the best skating competition in the history of the world! I was over the moon when Caroline Zhang finished.

Then the last three came out and -- pffft -- there goes the neighborhood.

Oh well.

(PS. I hope you get that "r" key fixed on your keyboard. :rofl: )
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I don't know, Toni. There were just so many programs that I enjoyed more than the winner's. Yasmin Saraj, for instance. Skater after skater tore the roof off the place. I was thinking, this is the best skating competition in the history of the world! I was over the moon when Caroline Zhang finished.

Then the last three came out and -- pffft -- there goes the neighborhood.

Oh well.

(PS. I hope you get that "r" key fixed on your keyboard. :rofl: )

But I don't like the idea that someone who lands all of their jumps with poor jumping technique and cheated jumps should win. Quality and technique is important otherwise there WILL go the neighborhood. I mean, it's true that it's a spectator sport. But it's also a judged sport. And the audience doesn't get to be the judge. Probably for good reason. I don't know if this is the best competition to make your case when there was such a lack of a clear winner.

Anyway, it's skating. No matter who won last night the boards would have exploded.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I agree with both you and Mathman. this system sometimes leaves people feeling confused and like they didn't watch the same competition that the judges did. But there were just as many results in the old system that left fans griping. We're still arguing over Oskana/Nancy in 94 Tara/Michelle in 1998. Petrenko/Wylie 92 for some people.

To me, it's different, though. I was hoping for Michelle to win, but Tara skated great, too. Nancy had more solid tech, but Oksana skated beautifully. Wylie and Petrenko -- both excellent.

None of them fell down twice.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I don't know, Toni. There were just so many programs that I enjoyed more than the winner's.

Same can be said, though, by anyone of any generation of skating - well before CoP came to play.

and the r key won't be able to be fixed. I need to either get a new laptop or get a bulky keyboard. it sucks.
 
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