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Thread: 2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies LP

  1. #421
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    My take on Ashley's score, though, is that there are aspects of her skating that are superior to Gracie's at this point. There is a poise and maturity there that Gracie does not possess yet that rightly shows up in PCS. And Gracie's choreography is, although better than last year, still rather juniorish. Seriously, just because the music has a march beat does not mean you must pretend to march.

    I have no problem with the short program counting or someone holding a lead because of a solid short. The whole game counts in every other sport. You can beat your opponent three touchdowns to none in the fourth quarter of a football game, but if they scored five to your zero in the first three quarters, no one is going to cry that it is not a sport because the best team of the fourth quarter did not win. Perhaps if television would show the short programs, fans would understand. We do get to see whole football games, after all.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    When I saw Mirai's score and final placement, I figured out the reason the boards crashed
    The boards actually crashed during Ashley's skate. Everyone rushing to talk about that meltdown all at once I guess and then the scoring kept it down long after the event. This thread would be much longer and way more popcorn-worthy if not for that.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kissx3 View Post
    The boards actually crashed during Ashley's skate. Everyone rushing to talk about that meltdown all at once I guess and then the scoring kept it down long after the event. This thread would be much longer and way more popcorn-worthy if not for that.
    So, it was preemptive crashing, then :D

  4. #424
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    Perhaps if television would show the short programs, fans would understand. We do get to see whole football games, after all.
    NBC did televise the short programs in the 1st hour of the broadcast last night. All of Wagner, Gold (including her premature fluff piece), Zawadzki, Hicks, Gao, and Nagasu were shown in their entirety.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 01-27-2013 at 11:50 AM.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    What a surprising post coming from you .....

    I didn't say Ashley's SP was spectacular. But yes it was very good. If not very good then good. it certainly wasn't average. As for the choreo I suppose it's a matter of taste but I adore her SP choreo and find it memorable. Definitely glad we will be seeing again at worlds.
    I'm glad for you. I do think she should be sent to world.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    In fairness, the campaign to get rid of figures existed before Ito and Manley took to the ice.
    OK, substitute Janet Lynn for Midori Ito. The point still stands. The SU saw that their sport was not audience friendly -- and especially not TV audience friendly -- so they set about to address that issue.

    I think the ISU is fine saying it's not a spectator sport.
    Then why is it on television? Why do they sell tickets and invite the public to come?

    You might be right, but if so this is a departure from past principles. When Cinquanta first became president the ISU was not shy about trumpeting his business savvy in securing a US$ 20,000,000 contract for television rights in the United States.

    I just received a copy of the new USFS Media Guide (thanks CC ), 188 glossy pages put out be the Marketing and Communications Division of USFS. Mentions how popular a television draw figure skating has been over the years, and what a wonderful opportunity if provides for corporate sponsors to jump in and promote their products through the popularity of skating as a spectator sport. Statistics about what per cent of certain desirable demographics you can reach, etc.

    If figure skating does not aspire to be a spectator sport, why have a "Marketing and Communications Division" in the first place?

    But you cannot invite an audience to come to your party and then ignore and insult them.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    NBC did televise the short programs in the 1st hour of the broadcast last night. All of Wagner, Gold (including her premature fluff piece), Zawadzki, Hicks, Gao, and Nagasu were shown in their entirety.
    I was at the arena.

    Typically, though, they do not. The woman sitting next to us, in fact, does not seem to comprehend that the ladies had a short program.

    I would also add that for all the gnashing of teeth about Gracie's placement...in the ordinal system, she would not have been able to pull up from ninth to second at all. There is no way around it that 9+1=10 no matter how good your free skate is.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    You said that in a joking way, but yes, that is one of the problems. A skater can build up such a big lead in the short program that the LP is irrelevant. Who would pay money to go to a sporting event (the climactic U.S. Nationals Ladies Long Program -- ta da!) when you already know who is going to win, no matter how badly they perform?
    Ashley didn't have that big of a lead overall. She had a big lead over Gracie, because Gracie was a mess in the short? Why have the short program if its okay to be a mess and still win? In fact many thought Gracie was overscored in the short.

    The real issue here (although I haven't seen the other programs) is how Ashley was scored in the long program vs the other girls. Its pretty clear the USFSA wanted Wagner and Gold on the team. However, I think a strong argument can be made that based on Ashley's dismal long, and Gold's dismal long that neither girl deserved to be 1-2. That Gao and Hicks especially were underscored in both phases of the competition. And yes Hicks has her issues, but I dont' think Gracie is that much more artistic than Hicks. I'll have to watch Gao/Hicks. The issue here is how easy this system is to cheat. Not that the short program matters.

    Maybe the short and long should be on the same night, with a half time, so than it can be on everyone's minds-how dismal Gold was in the short.

  9. #429
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    I got the sense that Ashley was (1) very disappointed with her skate; (2) genuinely surprised at how low the judges went to Mirai. She congratulated Gracie- didn't seem all that smug to me. But then again, I always want to think the best of our ice skaters- I was devastated when I was 7 and Nancy Kerrigan did not lose graciously in 1994.

  10. #430
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutzy13 View Post
    I got the sense that Ashley was (1) very disappointed with her skate; (2) genuinely surprised at how low the judges went to Mirai. She congratulated Gracie- didn't seem all that smug to me. But then again, I always want to think the best of our ice skaters- I was devastated when I was 7 and Nancy Kerrigan did not lose graciously in 1994.
    Aw. you must have been a nice 7 year old.

    Some love to tear down the winner. Ashley's getting critized for looking happy that she won. Please. I think she seems like a great girl.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Yes, the inadequacies that count both the SP and the LP, the horror...
    Gracie's SP BV was higher than Ashley's - with all Gracie's problems in SP. She lost in SP less than won in FS.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    I have no problem with the short program counting or someone holding a lead because of a solid short. The whole game counts in every other sport. You can beat your opponent three touchdowns to none in the fourth quarter of a football game, but if they scored five to your zero in the first three quarters, no one is going to cry that it is not a sport because the best team of the fourth quarter did not win.
    This is not the only model, though. There is also the "semi-finals, then the finals" model. 6.0 was sort of like that. You "made the finals" by finishing in the top three in the short program. Then you "controlled your own destiny" in the long program -- but you still had to beat the other two in the LP no matter how well you did in the SP. And there was still some flexibility in that someone could strike from fourth or fifth with a little help from her friends.

    Then there is the "world series" model. If you win the first game by 20 runs, the only thing that carries forward is the win. You do not get to begin the second game with a 20 run advantage.

    Just saying -- someone in the iSU ought to be thinking about these things in a creative way.

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Aw. you must have been a nice 7 year old.

    Some love to tear down the winner. Ashley's getting critized for looking happy that she won. Please. I think she seems like a great girl.
    No US lady on the podium at worlds then.

    They might manage 6th & 7th or 5th and 8th to bag the 3 spots back which would be good for Sochi as I think they deserve 3 spots.

    Gold had really nice jumps, enjoyed them.

    Wagner, well, she had a better program last year, doesn't have the jumps (no 3/3's or true lutz) and her edge work isn't all that to make up for it. Where is that US star?? Hmmmmm, Gold might medal in a few years but, there was no WOW lady in that field tonight.

    How were the juniors? Any really artistic girls there?

    Pairs had arguably their worst ever champion, the men's field would have been exciting if this was 1998 and now Wagner wins by default since there is no one else! I'm sad for the states :(

  14. #434
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post

    But you cannot invite an audience to come to your party and then ignore and insult them.
    I haven't felt ignored or insulted. Gracie dug herself a hole in teh SP - for all the bitching going on about how the CoP gives the winner the gold in the SP - Gracie'd never have jumped up to second (and 1st in the free) if it'd been the 6.0 system. Too many awesome skates happened in the LP that would've continued to keep her down.

    Unless, of course, the judges played some games to make sure their "media darling" stayed within striking distance. But of course that wouldn't *ever* happen in that system.

  15. #435
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    I don't think that such kind of judging is good for US figure skating.

    Ashley with her nice skating (is it so nice as Carolina's, Mao's, Yuna's?), but not so high technically, will meet at Worlds Carolina, Mao, Yuna with really nice skating, who work hard on complicated technical content. Kiira also works hard to have 10 triples in SP+FS.
    Carolina, for example, had at Worlds-2012 3+3 combo.
    Yuna has 3Lz+3T.
    And also Liza and Adelina with their technical content and good (maybe not so nice as above, but not so bad) skating.

    What will be result?

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