2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies LP

[Tonichelle]

Tossing CoP, Courtney Hicks is the new champion, Courtney and Gracie go to worlds, Courtney, Gracie and Christina go to Four Cintinents, and Ashley and Jeremy Abbott begin preparing for next year.

unless they apply the logic to the ladies like they did in 08 and split 4CC and Worlds assignments a little differently. I think Ashley would still get to go to worlds.

[FlattFan]

Courtney and Christina should have placed above that mess occupying third place.
US Nationals is a joke. It is probably the most corrupted event this year.

[xabia]

Well, in gymnastics when the scores are in the 20 range these days, a fall is a one point deduction, and in skating when the points are in 200+ range, a fall is also a one point deduction. That tells the story. I'm fine with URs being heavily penalized, it's just that falls really aren't. I actually feel like 5 points deduction for a fall is about right.

You make a good point. The comparison with gymnastics is a good one.

[cheerio2]

I totally agree also with noidont. That was a great point. In addition, I think most audiences do not want to just mindlessly take the judges' word about URs which they often can't see in real time over major errors that are obvious to the naked eye. If they truly want to be fair and transparent, they should use and make available to the public the slow motion of each skater's every jump online. If judges are going to allow UR calls/other nonvisible aspects to overcome major visible errors, they should provide the evidence.

[Skater Boy]

Maybe a UR triple is really an added difficulty double and should be scored accordingly assume it is well done???

[mskater93]

Especially some of the extended pairs lifts that we saw over the weekend.



Factored placements turn out like this:

Ashley 5
Courtney Hicks 10
Gracie Gold 11
Christina Gao 13
Yasmin Siraj 16 (+tie-break)
Agnes Zawadski 16
Samantha Cesario 19
Mirai Nagasu 25
Angela Wang 26
Hannah Miller 28
Caroline Zhang 30

Actually FP should be SP X 0.5 + LP X 1

[Mathman]

Maybe a UR triple is really an added difficulty double and should be scored accordingly assume it is well done???

It is almost never well done. For one thing, as a double it is over-rotated, leading to an awkward landing at best.

Popping an intended triple into a double is OK, though, and could get positive GOE.

Actually FP should be SP X 0.5 + LP X 1

Oh. OK. Ashley 2.5, etc.

[flying camel]

[QUOTE=louisa05;704256]My take on Ashley's score, though, is that there are aspects of her skating that are superior to Gracie's at this point. There is a poise and maturity there that Gracie does not possess yet that rightly shows up in PCS. And Gracie's choreography is, although better than last year, still rather juniorish. Seriously, just because the music has a march beat does not mean you must pretend to march.

I so agree with you about that part of Gracie's program where she starts marching. What was her choreographer thinking? Her coaches really need to change that part of the choreography before worlds.

[dorispulaski]

Not to be an idiot, but there is no rule against marching, and it does not score negative points, however silly.

Gracie is apparently being the child in the movie, who starts marching after the Nazi solders, until stopped by its dad.

[Eislauf]

[QUOTE=flying camel;705810]

My take on Ashley's score, though, is that there are aspects of her skating that are superior to Gracie's at this point. There is a poise and maturity there that Gracie does not possess yet that rightly shows up in PCS. And Gracie's choreography is, although better than last year, still rather juniorish. Seriously, just because the music has a march beat does not mean you must pretend to march.

I so agree with you about that part of Gracie's program where she starts marching. What was her choreographer thinking? Her coaches really need to change that part of the choreography before worlds.

Touché! That marching was jarringly unsophisticated. Marching is what wee little kids do when learning to skate

And - yes - Ashley's carriage, body and arm positions are balletic and polished - far better than Gracie's. While watching Gracie's LP, I immediately noticed how much she was flapping her long arms up and down.

[louisa05]

Not to be an idiot, but there is no rule against marching, and it does not score negative points, however silly.

Gracie is apparently being the child in the movie, who starts marching after the Nazi solders, until stopped by its dad.

Music does not have to be and really should not be interpreted that literally. And as Eislauf pointed out, it is what children are taught to learn to skate which makes it even more foolish to stick in a senior level program.

[Tonichelle]

[QUOTE=Eislauf;705817]

Touché! That marching was jarringly unsophisticated. Marching is what wee little kids do when learning to skate

And - yes - Ashley's carriage, body and arm positions are balletic and polished - far better than Gracie's. While watching Gracie's LP, I immediately noticed how much she was flapping her long arms up and down.

...didn't Boitano march to Gold in Calgary?

[TontoK]

While watching Gracie's LP, I immediately noticed how much she was flapping her long arms up and down.

When I watched her program, I immediately noticed her magnificant jumps.

There's a discussion on the men's board about the absolute need for quads. It's the next evolution for men. A man can certainly be a stylish skater without one, but he'll be a competitive also-ran. It's just the way things are going.

Similarly, for the women, they're going to need triple/triple, and probably more than one. Yes... there will be pretty skaters who do beautiful spirals with lovely hands and 3L/2T combinations, but they won't be on top. The sport is shifting to a more athletic zone.

The hope is that these athletes will have the whole package... but I'd rather be in Gracie's skates right now... with a powerful jump arsenal... than be one of the hoard of mediocre jumpers with balletic qualities.

If I were a young woman now, I'd be working on obtaining powerful jumps. If I were Gracie, I'd be working on 3A.

[Eislauf]

...didn't Boitano march to Gold in Calgary?

True, but Brian was actually 'skating as' and costumed as an actual soldier: Napoleon. Plus Brian's a man, so marching is less 'jarring' to see in his program on the basis of gender association alone. I doubt many want to see a female skater, much less a beautiful one like Gracie, dazzling in her beautiful dress, diamond earrings, pretty hair accessories and so on, actually.....march. It doesn't fit with her glamorous, feminine style or gender.

[Eislauf]

When I watched her program, I immediately noticed her magnificant jumps.

There's a discussion on the men's board about the absolute need for quads. It's the next evolution for men. A man can certainly be a stylish skater without one, but he'll be a competitive also-ran. It's just the way things are going.

Similarly, for the women, they're going to need triple/triple, and probably more than one. Yes... there will be pretty skaters who do beautiful spirals with lovely hands and 3L/2T combinations, but they won't be on top. The sport is shifting to a more athletic zone.

The hope is that these athletes will have the whole package... but I'd rather be in Gracie's skates right now... with a powerful jump arsenal... than be one of the hoard of mediocre jumpers with balletic qualities.

If I were a young woman now, I'd be working on obtaining powerful jumps. If I were Gracie, I'd be working on 3A.

I was only comparing the polish and maturity of Ashley's skating vs Gracie's. I think Ashley has the edge in sophistication and elegance but Gracie beats Ashley on the basis of her athleticism with her enormous jumps. As Gracie matures, one would expect that the 'finish' and elegance will develop. Agree that Ashley needs a good consistent triple-triple to compete at the top level.