and by next Season the Shibs will have a hard time even getting bronze with Hubell/Donohue continue improving and
Originally Posted by blackswanphoto
Aldridge/Eaton will be seniors next season
If it regress like a duck, it must be the shibs.
If Aldridge/Eaton are seniors next year then they will be a non factor. They were majorly gifted with scores at nationals. They're in no danger of beating the Shibs or any of the top senior teams any time soon. If there's any of the top 5 that need to call it a day it's Lynn and Logan, talk about a road to nowhere. The Shibs were no more gifted scores than anyelse was. H/D hadn't reached those scores all season and suddenly they're breaking 100 at nationals, that won't happen anywhere else, neither will C/B's scores.
Hubbell/Donahue are "in your face" skaters, not a lot of subtlety there. Wouldn't worry about the Shibs, they just need to find better programs. Best ice dancer coming up by far is Jean-Luc Baker. He has deep soft knees and wonderful musicality. Too bad he is so short, but perhaps with time his new partnership will gel.
Originally Posted by sky_fly20
I thought Madison Chock's Russian snow bunny dress was cute.
Wow this thread. I guess nobody cares that Davis and White won their fifth title.
Anyway, I find these regression arguments amusing because it seems like they come with little context. Yes, I guess it's easy to say "The Shibs have regressed because they used to be third in the world and now they dropped to third in nationals."
Here's some context: We're not seeing a regression in ability of the Shibutanis technical skills. They still have some of the quietest blades in Ice Dance (something noted by Tracey Wilson yesterday). Tanith and Tracey both commented about how you can take a photo at any given moment of their dance because their lines and extension are so well-matched. The struggle this season has been in getting levels. Even Davis and White and Virtue and Moir have struggled to get levels, but you don't see anybody saying they have technically regressed. But all season long, as far as grades of execution, they have scored well.
The problem is that places 4-10 are actually quite crowded, with the teams all having similar levels of skating in the eyes of the judges. The Shibutani's bronze in 2011, clearly came with a tons of stars aligning -- a solid set of programs, mistakes from the others in front of them, etc. Judging by the Grand Prix from the previous fall nobody would have expected this -- they didn't even make the GPF that year.
Ice Dance, thankfully, has not stay static. A number of the teams have improved on the technical side, which is where the Shibs have done well historically. So as a result you have the shuffling of placements based on who best rises to the occasion that day. As we learned later, Alex was dealing with injury and couldn't train fully, so we weren't even dealing with a 100 percent Shibs teams at Worlds last year.
That said, the challenge for them -- besides getting those levels -- is improving that PCS score. Which provides less concrete feedback. And that's why you see them doing this style exploring they've done the last year. And they haven't found something that sticks.
As I mentioned before Maia and Alex look quite young for their age. They look like they're the same age as some of the U.S. junior dancers. That's not their fault -- as I noted Asians (I am one) look young for their age. You think the judges would not mix up youth with maturity, but the programs they did previously only enhanced that youth (and garnered the low scores with it), and as a result they got lower PCS scores. So I don't blame them for trashing the Mary Poppins SD and going for something abstract.
When you think about it's a lot to process in one year -- so it certainly makes sense if they struggle in the short term while they figure this all out.
The Shibs continue to have technical qualities to keep them a top team, however, I don't dispute the fact they now have to work on a whole other things - artistry, style, etc.-- if they want to stay competitive and rise up the ranks. And that takes more time for some teams for others.
Meh, it wasn't an overdramatic feat like it was for the other teams who made it (or didn't) to 5.
Originally Posted by Mrs. P
Well, I can't disagree with Tonichelle - I thinks something so unspeakably often would have had to happen for D/W not to win, and it was amazing what the other teams brought to their final positions. That said, OMG (and for Mrs P) Davis and White - 5 time US national champions with two spectacular programs. Their SD had me from the first outing - but my goodness, their FD has grown on my and I had chills and was just 'open jawed' watching their FD performance.
Way to really rock it! My goodness they are so talented, and so gutsy, and so well trained, and they performed the heck out of that one. I really can't wait to rewatch it several times.
For me that's amazing about it. D/W didn't really have to go all out to win the title - they could have been at 70 percent and still won. But no, they were at 100 percent (as they always are) and did with two AMAZING programs. But yes, I agree the FD has been an amazing progression, just like their FD from 2011. Worlds is going to be a big treat for Ice Dance fans!
Originally Posted by emma
01-27-2013, 02:41 PM
I really don't understand all this hate for the Shibutani's...my goodness!
01-27-2013, 02:41 PM
^first, sorry for the typos above (note to self: don't try to text on phone with one hand and post on computer with another).
Oh but you are so, so right. They are stunning in their commitment to going full out, not holding an ounce back. Again, for me, that is an example of their gutsy-ness - its pure commitment and courage.
After worlds last year (well after rewatching and reading some things), I felt really, really badly that D/W didn't win (and I kind of wish V/M had won the GPF); but this year, I think I am just going to sit back, with jaw dropped of course, and enjoy the heck out of watching these two teams (and a number of other stellar teams) and just thank the skating gods for such amazing ice dancers.
01-27-2013, 02:43 PM
If the Shibs have been dumped, it was a most gentle dumping. They lost the silver by less than 2 points, and they would have won silver if not for their lift deduction in each program. They also get to keep their spot on the World team. If anything, I think the judges are nudging them to up their game in terms of programs. Their short dance is weird, and not in a fun way. Their free dance is beautiful, but not terribly exciting. It got a little lost between H/D and D/W. C/B were technically on, and no doubt benefit from being Igor's number one US team. The Shibs and C/B now get to slog it out before two panels of international judges. It will be really interesting to see what happens there.
W/P were supposed to pass P/B this year and threaten D/W. We have seen how much that came to pass. I think news of the Shibs's demise is similarly premature.
01-27-2013, 02:55 PM
Actually USFS gave that feedback (for upping their dance programs) at Champs Camp, when they said they were overskating to Mary Poppins, so that's why we have this abstract SD. I actually don't think it's that bad -- it's just that, honestly, it's was a bigger dance than their performance skill ability. I actually could see other teams doing this dance quite easily. But I think this SD is like the FD for D/W from 2011 -- something they had to grow into over the season. I hope they will be able to perform it well at 4CC and Worlds!
Originally Posted by CassAgain
Actually I think their FD is fine. It's quiet and subtle and not in your face. I think actually the dance, highlights their quiet blades even more, which is a good thing.
01-27-2013, 02:57 PM
Maybe they aren't dumping the Shiboo's but trying to get them to get a different coach? LOL
01-27-2013, 08:00 PM
I don't see it as dumping the Shibs but more about hyping up C/B. They need to build momentum for a potentially strong new team that's definitely getting the spot for Sochi. I just think it's not going to matter. If we are talking about Sochi, the podium is pretty much set. Everyone but the top 3 are just playing for rep points. Shibs should be happy to get something like 8th in Sochi.
It's no small triumph for an Asian looking team to get that far in ice dance. As a matter of fact it can be said to be unprecedented.
Last edited by noidont; 01-27-2013 at 08:02 PM.