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Thread: 2013 US Nationals Senior FD

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitneyskates View Post
    They lost the silver by a little over 1 point and less than a point seperated their FD from C/B. And Aldridge/Eaton? Seriously? Honestly, these "Shibutanis must break up now" posts are becoming very redundant.
    indeed.

    If getting level 4s on everything, excellent GOE and getting a medal in their third straight senior nationals would be considered tanking, I better not bother living since I'm nowhere as accomplished as those two.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    No, but they should now seriously consider skating for Japan instead. If they can't expect to be the U.S. Champions even after D/W retire, then there is no point for them to remain in the U.S. in Ice Dance. That's just the way it works in Ice Dance. The Duchesnays switched countries for that and at one point, if B/K wasn't going to win the Canadian Nationals in 1993-94, rumors said they would move to Germany where Kraatz holds citizenship.
    I agree moving to Japan is their best option they arent going to US champions in the future
    with Aldridge/Eaton, Macnamara/Carpenter, Chock/Bates , Hubell.Donohue potentailly surpassing them.

    though not sure they might be reluctant to skate for Japana
    as they will have to relinquish us citizenship as Japan forbids dual

    they have 2 options
    1 skate for Japan
    2 find new partners that will not limit their capacities, too much cutsey brother/sister programs just wont cut it
    Last edited by sky_fly20; 01-27-2013 at 02:29 AM.

  3. #78
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    The Shibs, on paper, aren't as promosing as B/C. Both B/C are former junior world champion. Both are stronger of the previous partnership. After one year together, they became stronger and stronger. By next year, they will leave the Shibs in the dust. And with the Shibs' limited range, it's really over for them. The Shibs are no competition for B/C.

    They can keep H/D at bay this year, but the bronze is really up for grab next year.

    Better to break up now and prepare for 2018.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    No, but they should now seriously consider skating for Japan instead. If they can't expect to be the U.S. Champions even after D/W retire, then there is no point for them to remain in the U.S. in Ice Dance.
    "No point"? I hope that you are not saying that the Shibutanis' skating career is worthless unless they become U.S. champions. I believe that their many on-ice accomplishments -- past, present, and future -- will remain a source of pride and satisfaction to them (rightfully so), with or without a U.S. title.

    And stranger things have happened, but I will be very surprised if the Shibutanis seek Japanese citizenship.

    (A) If their #1 priority bar none was a guaranteed path to the Olympics, why didn't they pursue Japanese citizenship years ago -- allowing plenty of time to square everything away for a slot at the Sochi Games as members of Team Japan?

    (B) Does anyone even know for sure whether their mother still has her Japanese citizenship? Would not surprise me if she is a naturalized U.S. citizen at this point.
    And I don't know where their father was born (in the U.S. or Japan or ???). Even if he too was born in Japan, the same question above would apply to him as well.
    (I have raised these questions in at least one previous thread. Never received any answers.)

    BTW, I believe that the tuition at U Mich would be much, much higher for the Shibs if they were not U.S. citizens.

    But above all, I believe that the Shibutanis are loyal Americans, who love representing the U.S.

    sky_fly seems to have purposely omitted an obvious third option, but IMHO, it is the most likely scenario:
    3. Continue their partnership with each other as members of Team USA.
    I believe also that they love skating with each other, and that their partnership will end only with the retirement of one or both siblings.
    Last edited by golden411; 01-27-2013 at 04:15 AM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    (B) Does anyone even know for sure whether their mother still has her Japanese citizenship? Would not surprise me if she is a naturalized U.S. citizen at this point.
    And I don't know where their father was born (in the U.S. or Japan or ???). Even if he too was born in Japan, the same question above would apply to him as well.
    (I have raised these questions in at least one previous thread. Never received any answers.)
    From this article: http://espn.go.com/espnw/more-sports...amily-business

    Chris grew up in Chappaqua, N.Y., and Naomi, born in Japan, grew up in Miami. The Shibutani siblings started skating at ages 7 (Alex) and 4 (Maia) in New York. Chris currently works with a hedge fund in Chicago and is able to come home on weekends, Maia said.
    So it sounds like Dad is unlikely a Japanese citizen (or likely gave up dual citizenship long ago), so it would be through their mother.

    Anyway, these posts are laughable. For me, the fact that people see this result as the Shibs regressing and/or a federation dumping is actually an insult to the improvements made by the teams behind them. The Shibs had a very strong FD and the fact that Chock and Bates beat them, speaks to the fact that Chock and Bates have improved greatly. Not to mention the fact if they didn't have a deduction for an extended lift, they would be virtually tied.

    I'll note that the Shibs beat C&B in PCS in both segments.

    And yes golden, I agree with you -- they clearly love skating with each other and for team USA and they have a bond with each other that they can't replicate with other partners.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 01-27-2013 at 03:48 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemistry66 View Post
    Wait...Zach Donohue has facial hair? Since...when?

    /shows you how much I watch live.
    Sorry, forgot to reply earlier, Chemistry. @Z_Donohue had tweeted earlier on Saturday:
    ‏Last few hours of the goatee.... Gonna miss you buddy! http://instagr.am/p/U9YtAOg5Bk/
    11:45 AM - 26 Jan 13

    I think the implication seems to be that it was just another cosmetic accoutrement for competitive purposes.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    From this article: http://espn.go.com/espnw/more-sports...amily-business



    So it sounds like Dad is unlikely a Japanese citizen (or likely gave up dual citizenship long ago), so it would be through their mother.

    Anyway, these posts are laughable. For me, the fact that people see this result as the Shibs regressing and/or a federation dumping is actually an insult to the improvements made by the teams behind them. The Shibs had a very strong FD and the fact that Chock and Bates beat them, speaks to the fact that Chock and Bates have improved greatly. Not to mention the fact if they didn't have a deduction for an extended lift, they would be virtually tied.

    I'll note that the Shibs beat C&B in PCS in both segments.

    And yes golden, I agree with you -- they clearly love skating with each other and for team USA and they have a connection with each other that they can't replicate with other partners.
    Thanks as always, Mrs. P.

    Will note that the Shibutanis had lift deductions for both their SD and FD. Had they not lost those two full points, they would have placed second overall, ahead (barely ahead, but ahead) of Chock/Bates. [I think I've got the numbers right this time, for once. ]

    I believe that the speculation about joining Team Japan is far-fetched regardless, but I have a question: if the parent(s) born in Japan have given up his/her/their Japanese citizenship to become naturalized U.S. citizens, would the children still be eligible for Japanese citizenship? I am guessing not, but only a guess. Seems within the realm of possibility to me that Mom Shibutani gave up her Japanese citizenship well before any inkling that Maia and Alex would become world-class athletes.

  8. #83
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    The Shibutanis can keep skating together for the U.S and keep going until 2018 if they wish (personally I think they are in terminal decline now and wouldnt even make the 2018 Olympic team, heck they arent a lock to make 2014). There is more to skate for then medals, and they are still having enough success at this point I imagine it is atleast mildly fun for now. That said it is funny to see so many in this thread take offense to the suggestion they are on the way down. Hello, they were 3rd at Worlds in 2011, 9th last year, are probably slated for something like 9th this year based on their grand prix results and 3rd place here, and have been beaten by a team who was way behind them in the U.S last year. It is indisputable that at the moment they are on their way down. Could they turn it around. Of course it is possible, but the observations made in this thread are quite correct.

    That said I am not sure if they should get new partners. That really is up to them. There is no guarantee they would do better in a new partnership anyway.

    I do think unfair to them but there is alot of ill will to their medal at the 2011 Worlds which created quite a huge controversy, and they are paying a price for that in their scores since as well. As I said that is unfair since it isnt their fault the judges gave them this huge gift, but it still had alot of people angry, from the Russians who came 6th and 7th on their home ice, from the Canadians, to perhaps some in the ISU, and the effect is visbile since. Weaver & Poje were royally screwed out of the podium that year after P&B fell, but that is the story of W&Ps career, probably the most consistently screwed over team ever.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Anyway, these posts are laughable. For me, the fact that people see this result as the Shibs regressing and/or a federation dumping is actually an insult to the improvements made by the teams behind them. The Shibs had a very strong FD and the fact that Chock and Bates beat them, speaks to the fact that Chock and Bates have improved greatly. Not to mention the fact if they didn't have a deduction for an extended lift, they would be virtually tied.

    I'll note that the Shibs beat C&B in PCS in both segments.
    C&B are promising. They progressed at a scary rate. They beat the Shibs at their best in two years after getting together in little time.
    By this time next year, I can guarantee until C&B mess up something, the Shibs will play for bronze.
    The Shibs still beat C&B in PCS because they were world medalists and C&B are still nobody.

    Shibs are regressing/declining. They are like K/S of pairs. They are done done done. I see them struggling to make top 10 this year actually. D/W, V/M, P/B, I/K, B/S, C/B, C/L, R/T, the other canadian team. If dropping in ranking year after year isn't regressing/declining, what do you call that?

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    What is it about some of the people on this board? It's either HYPE! HYPE! HYPE! on the flimsiest of evidence or it's DOOM AND GLOOM! (and on equally flimsy evidence).

    Perhaps with the Shibs it isn't a matter of REgressing so much as it is this: they are not PROgressing at the same rate of other teams at the moment (aka the plateau effect).

    That, however, is not the same thing as saying Oh for land's sake, hang up those skates NOW and take up gardening...

    Jeez!
    Last edited by WeakAnkles; 01-27-2013 at 06:25 AM.

  11. #86
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    I actually think this is the best free dance I've seen the Shibs do since worlds 2011. Marina eluded to the fact that she has plans to work a lot with them and perfect their programs even more.

    The technical quality of their skating is undeniable and they had a certain poetic elegance that I think is very unique to this team. You know what I think a large part of it is? More than any other Ice Dance team I've ever seen I think they are really experiencing growing pains and finally moving beyond them. It's important to remember that at least through the top 7 Ice Dance teams in the US they are easily the youngest team in age.

    I think they had one style and look which was very cute and charming when they were both little, and now they are figuring out their new aesthetic. Searching for something that is mature, essential and appropriate for them. It's still a work in progress but they began to capture a little magic that is uniquely their own again in the free dance here. Still haven't seen their short dance from Nationals but I think that concept is a good stretch for them. While they're getting the levels on their lifts, I'd like to see a little more innovation, more of a daredevil quality. Particularly because I look at their final choreographic dance lift and the picture and quality is so very special and unique to them but the rest of the lifts also exist in that quality.

    Chock and Bates were lovely and Hubbell and Donahue were such a breath of fresh air too. More thoughts on them later but I need to sleeeeeeeeep

  12. #87
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    Congratulations to Meryl and Charlie they were just amazing!

    Chock and Bates have really improved this season Congrats to them for winning the Silver!

    Loved the Shibs and Hubbell/Donahue! Overall great FD competition and I thioroughtly enjoyed it.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by samson View Post
    I actually think this is the best free dance I've seen the Shibs do since worlds 2011. Marina eluded to the fact that she has plans to work a lot with them and perfect their programs even more.

    The technical quality of their skating is undeniable and they had a certain poetic elegance that I think is very unique to this team. You know what I think a large part of it is? More than any other Ice Dance team I've ever seen I think they are really experiencing growing pains and finally moving beyond them. It's important to remember that at least through the top 7 Ice Dance teams in the US they are easily the youngest team in age.

    I think they had one style and look which was very cute and charming when they were both little, and now they are figuring out their new aesthetic. Searching for something that is mature, essential and appropriate for them. It's still a work in progress but they began to capture a little magic that is uniquely their own again in the free dance here. Still haven't seen their short dance from Nationals but I think that concept is a good stretch for them. While they're getting the levels on their lifts, I'd like to see a little more innovation, more of a daredevil quality. Particularly because I look at their final choreographic dance lift and the picture and quality is so very special and unique to them but the rest of the lifts also exist in that quality.

    Chock and Bates were lovely and Hubbell and Donahue were such a breath of fresh air too. More thoughts on them later but I need to sleeeeeeeeep
    Totally agree. Best to call a spade a spade. They are on the way down and there will be no recovery. While they always had good technique, the Shibutani's just do not have the natural DANCE ability to do anything about their decline. While I do think Alex may have a chance with a different partner, like one of those Russian bombshells. Maia, no way. Just too boring, not fluid and stiff as a board. Sorry!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackswanphoto View Post
    Totally agree. Best to call a spade a spade. They are on the way down and there will be no recovery.
    lol What in the world? What's with all the gloom and doom!?

    I'm reading all these nonsense and I keep asking myself. Are they dying or something??


    The Shibutanis will be alright. They're one of the future stars of the next quad!

    Anyway last year all three US couples made the top ten. Now I wonder if the US can step it up another level and have all three of their couples be in the top 8. That would be fantastic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dots View Post
    lol What in the world? What's with all the gloom and doom!?

    I'm reading all these nonsense and I keep asking myself. Are they dying or something??


    The Shibutanis will be alright. They're one of the future stars of the next quad!

    Anyway last year all three US couples made the top ten. Now I wonder if the US can step it up another level and have all three of their couples be in the top 8. That would be fantastic!
    They went from being third in the WORLD to barely scraping by and being gifted third on the national podium. That's a huge decline.

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