2013 Europeans Ladies LP | Page 16 | Golden Skate

2013 Europeans Ladies LP

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Congratulations to Caro, Adelina and Liza, very nice podium indeed!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
First of all there's some strong reasons for this. Elizaveta needs to work on her PCS. She tends to from many stay in the center of the rink. She needs to work on her skating skills/ ice coverage etc. The judges clearly were very close to giving Adelina the title even with Adelina's mistakes, so I don't think the issue here is the judges being unwilling to reward young talent...The judges want to see more than just jumps.

Sotnikova singled a flip and did Flutz and her pcs was 63 to kostners 70.Do you really have to give a title to a double salchow skater to say work harder on pcs? That is saying the point of he sport is pcs and jumps can be double salchows.
 
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mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
I'm not only thrilled to see this podium but some of the other skaters did exceptionally well too. I can't wait to see them in the future. :biggrin:
 

Thawingiceberg

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Congratualtions to 3 medal winners, especially to Liza! Very well done, Liza, your FS scores make me so excited. Just keep it up! Oh, I'm so happy for you!!!
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
The results are far far from surprising to me. Though I would have had Adeline first, Carolina secnod barely holding off Liza because of the free skate. I would say either Kostner is overmarked on pcs or Liza and Adeline were undermarked in pcs. This is just an opinion but this is similar to Fernadez and the Japanese men other than Takahashi and maybe Hanyu they should be a full level below Takahashi and chan but we rarely see scores that different yet the judges see something different with Carolina
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Tuktamysheva is the European Champion for me. Her program is wonderful and I can't believe more people don't see it. So well paced and attentive to the music throughout. And those jumps! Twice this year she has skated a clean 7-Triple program with one of the most difficult combinations out there and the quality of them all was first-rate (even the Flip was pretty commendable despite not having perfect flow-out...good height and ice coverage and a very correct edge).

I'd have Kostner in second because she had the best flow across the ice and hit the most important jumps; the ones she doubled actually didn't bother me too much. Her little step-out of the last jump actually just slid into the ending right on time with the music, haha!

Sotnikova's program is a front-loaded piece of crap. A fine performance but she loses too many points with that program and popping the Flip. 3rd place.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
First of all there's some strong reasons for this. Elizaveta needs to work on her PCS. She tends to from many stay in the center of the rink. She needs to work on her skating skills/ ice coverage etc. The judges clearly were very close to giving Adelina the title even with Adelina's mistakes, so I don't think the issue here is the judges being unwilling to reward young talent...The judges want to see more than just jumps.


I dont disagree with anything concidering the pcs but Liza dark eyes program is not skated in circles around the center of the rink, she was skating the whole rink and was fast. She looked tentative in the first 3 jumping passes though. She is smaller than the rest of skaters and maybe this hurts her presence on ice but yesterday she really filled the arena with energy. Adelina is taller and she skates bigger, my only problem was she looked in the zone until her last sequence.

Regarding worlds, I dont know if they would send Giovanni, she is lovely and has personality on ice but her jumps are scratchy and they look small. To me she looked juniorish.
 

euroskate

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
just watched the tukt. her jumps where hughe and perfect (ecxept for flip). This 2A3T should have received +3 from all the judges. she was also performing and outgoing epecially at the end. BUT nevertheless I did not like the program, the coreo and the music at all. I just did not get it. her PCS in 7 and 8 are defenitely right. She needs something different and something not so mishin like. she is a beautiful little ladie and needs to show this in her programs. perhaps something more soft and lyrical? I don´t know. we well she what they come up with next year.
 

euroskate

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
from one jump to another - that's all I've seen...

have to agree totally. and this is very unusual for coster. but still without doing transitions the programm worked out. i don´t know how she is doing it. she is just having such a presents on the ice no other lady had.
 

noidont

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
have to agree totally. and this is very unusual for coster. but still without doing transitions the programm worked out. i don´t know how she is doing it. she is just having such a presents on the ice no other lady had.

I think it's just that she is tall and thin. Like a model.
 

xabia

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Tukt

Fab height and length on her jumps, but she isn't an elegant skater. And what kind of horror fashion statement are those half covered boots in her SP?
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Go Elizaveta! She had the best overall FS for me. I think the program is beautiful, not to mention the fantastic jumps.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Do you really have to give a title to a double salchow skater to say work harder on pcs? That is saying the point of he sport is pcs and jumps can be double salchows.
Agreed. And that is what sucks- the winner was known in advance if Caro skated clean more or less. I don't think that if Sotnikova hadn't popped her flip, she wouldn have won. They would simply have adjusted Caro's PCS and GOE better :laugh:. She didn't deserve the title today with 4 triples (I wonder where are all those Mao bashers now who were so loud about her 66 PCS with 4 tripes). To win with less than a point to some Junior debutante is pretty embarrasing by itself. It's even more embarrsing to have BV of second 10s in RN charts (except Makarova). And in case of Caro it's not for the first time. She is repeatedly "pulled" on top by PCS. The charming chart was done by some poster on Yuan forum (all green- won by PCS): http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww96/scheherazade777/carotespcs-1.jpg Don Ottavia should be really happy to enjoy how this system works. :rolleye:
Liza is the best jumper. Just a monster. Adelina was very good too. It's not that easy to skate jazz, especially with strong vocal. But she seems like united with the music and was having fun all around. I am always very grateful to girls when they use something different that ice princess's stuff and overused music. Anyway, good work for all Russian babies. Photos of Adelya and Liza:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkXe6MCEAE7P-K.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkWb9ICMAAJJvp.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkW84PCcAETk4I.jpg
 

berrycute

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Agreed. And that is what sucks- the winner was known in advance if Caro skated clean more or less. I don't think that if Sotnikova hadn't popped her flip, she wouldn have won. They would simply have adjusted Caro's PCS and GOE better :laugh:. She didn't deserve the title today with 4 triples (I wonder where are all those Mao bashers now who were so loud about her 66 PCS with 4 tripes). To win with less than a point to some Junior debutante is pretty embarrasing by itself. It's even more embarrsing to have BV of second 10s in RN charts (except Makarova). And in case of Caro it's not for the first time. She is repeatedly "pulled" on top by PCS. The charming chart was done by some poster on Yuan forum (all green- won by PCS): http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww96/scheherazade777/carotespcs-1.jpg Don Ottavia should be really happy to enjoy how this system works. :rolleye:
Liza is the best jumper. Just a monster. Adelina was very good too. It's not that easy to skate jazz, especially with strong vocal. But she seems like united with the music and was having fun all around. I am always very grateful to girls when they use something different that ice princess's stuff and overused music. Anyway, good work for all Russian babies. Photos of Adelya and Liza:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkXe6MCEAE7P-K.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkWb9ICMAAJJvp.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkW84PCcAETk4I.jpg

If you are really a fan of skaters using original music, why would you uphold a skater using the oft-employed Adios Nonino over one who uses some original choices in her SP. Honestly, the number of junior and second-tier girls using Adios Nonino is huge. No originality there. Plus, Elizaveta basically skates two tangos this season, her LP and SP are honestly almost the same. She can't even show originality form herself. Lame. I give props for originality to Adelina but it's not like she did anything good with it - that program has been described as "puke inducing". Actually now that I think of it, this fight between Caro and Russians has happened before, remember when the Moscow audience god all mad when Alena Leonova lost to Carolina for the bronze at Worlds 2011? Hahaha as if that piece-of-poo program belonged anywhere near a podium.

The problem is, people can find anything to justify why their personal favourite was/wasn't given the title, and why that's good/bad. I honestly enjoyed Carron and Jones in the ice dancing more than any of the other teams in the second group and was a little peeved when they didn't make it into the top 5 over some schlocky programs that did, but that's skating, it's an honest combination of sport and art and if you neglect one aspect too much you pay for it. People are bleeting here because Caro doubled two salchows, but honestly she still landed her lutz and flip, so I think she did a good job on the technical aspect. The Russian girls did even better on the tech side but they were so MANY MANY MILES behind Caro in artistry that they could never have come close to narrowing the gap that much. Anyone who thinks Tut skated like a champion here is lying, delusional or straight-up stupid. I am sorry your favourite didn't win but TOO BAD.

One thing I cannot stand, however, is the nasty insinuations that this is all skating politics and that Carolina's win is somehow the result of backroom dealings. Just how strong do you think the Italian fed is? Do you seriously think ANYONE could beat Russia in backroom dealings? They've been accused of it time and time and time again. Stop that nonsense now.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
The Russian girls did even better on the tech side but they were so MANY MANY MILES behind Caro in artistry that they could never have come close to narrowing the gap that much. Anyone who thinks Tut skated like a champion here is lying, delusional or straight-up stupid. I am sorry your favourite didn't win but TOO BAD.

One thing I cannot stand, however, is the nasty insinuations that this is all skating politics and that Carolina's win is somehow the result of backroom dealings. Just how strong do you think the Italian fed is? Do you seriously think ANYONE could beat Russia in backroom dealings? They've been accused of it time and time and time again. Stop that nonsense now.

I disagree, Tuk's LP she skated like champion
Carolina has always benefited from her huge pcs boost so she can water down her technical content, only Yuna can outscore her maybe Mao
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Let me just say that it was an exciting competition... Also because it creates hot discussion ;)

She needs to change her outfit to fit the music AND flatter her body, attempt something a little more complicated than a run-of-the-mill tango, do something more than just shake her hands about (jazz hands???:laugh:) and attempt to actually present some kind of emotion or story on ice.

Seriously, look at what David Wilson did for Korpi, her sp this season is lovely, and yet he can't help Tuktamysheva. She is just NOT an artist, at least not yet.

I agree that Liza needs better packaging (costume, choreo), but the fact that she is not an artist, does not mean she should not win the LP more convicingly based on her athletic merits. It is a sport after all, and I must say that the excellent execution of technical elemets rises the overall quality of her program and increases the general impression. Her perfect jumps do give some extra boost and wow factor to this program, which is not exactly there, when she fails to deliver jumps.

I'm glad the overall best skater won over terrible program with good jumps and terrible technique with so-so program.
So many haters! :)

Lol, looks who's talking ;).

Carolina is the only woman here with an actual program. If you seriously think Adelina or Elizaveta should win with those kind of "programs" that just look so cheap, you need a good hard slap to the face, IMHO!

I think that Adelinas and Liza's programs are not masterpieces, but what they did technically compared to Carolina, somehow balances out this deficiency. This is the opinion of many posters and most of them they tried to justify their opinions in a honest solid discussion. Thus, I dont think they need a slap to their faces, just because you happen do think otherwise. I think what you say is actually little insulting.
And it's not that Kostner's LP is a masterpiece either. YEs, she is fast. Yes, she has a great presence (willowy, mature, graceful), but her LP is just skating from an element to element.
Yet, I would gladly see Adelina getting much better LP... She deserves it and this one is just a waste of her talent - her musicality, lovely plasticity of her movements and flow are just lost in the current one. HEr lines are hidden. And I personally think that her spiral is better than Carolina's (my 2 cents to the discussion on Kostner's spirals before in this thread). But then again, she is only 17... So she might need some time to develop. Yet, even in age of 17 it wouldnt hurt if she got a better material to start with.
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Looking beyond the podium:
--Marchei should be proud of herself.
--Glad at least one Helgesson made the top 5.
--Gosviani is not a stinker like some posters have made her out to be. I was pleasantly surprised, though she's got a way to go.
--Elena G and Elene G are my biggest :bang: as they are so much better than how they executed. Ladies, GET IT TOGETHER. Glebova's program was probably my favorite of the free skates.

I absolutely LOVE this program (Glebova's). It's voidy verging on sensual, has super light and shade,and uses some lovely musical nuances. Shame about the jumps, but most original program I've seen in years.

ITA with what you guys said. Im mad that Elena Glebova never lives up to her potential. She is such an interesting skater.. Powerfull jumps, good skating skills, good presence on ice, and often she has great programs. But she never delivers when it counts, plus judges dont do her any favours... Yes, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER, ELena!
Im thrilled for Valentina. It is actually a pity (in some way) that the competition was so tough today, because I feel it would be great if she medalled. I have never been her fan, but she won me over this season (great program, great costumes, a lot of joy in her skating).
I like Gosviani.. I hope she continues to improve!

Agreed, that's why I said it was more amusing to see so many people going ballistic over a close competition which really could have gone either way. :)

Yet, somehow it always goes Kostner's way ;)
 

MK's Winter

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Agreed. And that is what sucks- the winner was known in advance if Caro skated clean more or less. I don't think that if Sotnikova hadn't popped her flip, she wouldn have won. They would simply have adjusted Caro's PCS and GOE better :laugh:. She didn't deserve the title today with 4 triples (I wonder where are all those Mao bashers now who were so loud about her 66 PCS with 4 tripes). To win with less than a point to some Junior debutante is pretty embarrasing by itself. It's even more embarrsing to have BV of second 10s in RN charts (except Makarova). And in case of Caro it's not for the first time. She is repeatedly "pulled" on top by PCS. The charming chart was done by some poster on Yuan forum (all green- won by PCS): http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww96/scheherazade777/carotespcs-1.jpg Don Ottavia should be really happy to enjoy how this system works. :rolleye:
Liza is the best jumper. Just a monster. Adelina was very good too. It's not that easy to skate jazz, especially with strong vocal. But she seems like united with the music and was having fun all around. I am always very grateful to girls when they use something different that ice princess's stuff and overused music. Anyway, good work for all Russian babies. Photos of Adelya and Liza:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkXe6MCEAE7P-K.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkWb9ICMAAJJvp.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkW84PCcAETk4I.jpg

Thanks for the beautiful pictures! It's nice to see that they are happy and support each other !
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I'm now back from Zagreb, and I can tell you that I don't understand why a lot of people here are discussing the results: I think that the competition was judged really well, everyone deserved the placement that the judges gave her. My impressions about the top5:
Carolina: I'm biased, yes, because I'm a big fan of her, but I have to say that I always find her SS magnificent: with one step she covers all the rink, her speed, her use of edges is something incredible, no-one there was even comparable to her talking about ss (maybe Sotnikova a bit). Then, her jumps: they are so big, they have great height, speed, flow, distance, something telegraphed but AMAZING!! Her Bolero is something incredible: she almost hypnotized us, when she was skating it was like being in another world, it was not just "executing a program", it was "living a program". That's all I can say, and I think it's enough! ;) (And, I think that her program had really a lot of transitions, certainly more and better executed than Liza's or Adelina's!) And, to all the ones that are still criticizing her jumps: she landed both 3F+3T and 3Lz+3T during the morning practice!
Adelina: I was so happy to see her skating well, her SP was perfect and she surprised me in the FS: I thought that she was going to bomb, but she didn't: she skated extremely well in the morning practice and in the warm up (landing some clean 3Lz+3Ts, too), and then made just two mistakes in the FS, she really deserved the silver medal and let me say that I even liked her program!
Liza: she didn't skate very well her SP, she looked really nervous before it and really didn't show her best, artistically, but she did perform her best in the FS. During the morning practice, she landed 3Lz+3T only once and it looked to me that she was nervous about her 3Lz: she tried a lot of singles and doubles but never even attempted it so, when she landed it in the FS, it was like a "YESS" and she was so happy that everything else looked easy. She looked a lot more nervous than Adelina, overall, and I think that her score was correct, if not a bit too high: she was evidently slower than Adelina and Caro and I didn't like her interpretation at all, it looked really juniorish, but she skated cleanily and she was really trying to interpret the music; 61 was still e bit too high, for me.
I'm going to upload all the videos that I made here: http://www.youtube.com/user/FSGMTVideos/videos?view=0 thank you for watching! :)
 
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