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Thread: 2013 Europeans Ladies LP

  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Kostner produced one of my favourite all time Euro title winning programs. Certainly her best attempt. Liza was super too, but the difference between Caro and the Russian gals is obvious. I don't want to criticize anyone in the top 4 since they all did so well and if you're whining then you are clearly new to the sport, have never seen a live competition and/or are biased so what's the point in preaching to the ignorant.
    Clearly disagreeing with the result could only be because of ignorance

  2. #287
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    I think maybe its a good thing that Adelina's not going into her first worlds as the reigning European Champ. She's established herself as Russia's no 1 if she skates well...

  3. #288
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    Well, since everyone seems to be so keen on counting the "clean" triples lately, let me just point out that both Sotnikova and Kostner landed 4.
    How "atrocious"! .
    Though Kostner's PCS seem a tad too high, it is deservedly higher than Sotnikova's, especially for that program.
    Liza's jumps were amazing, I think she deserved better GOE but her PCS should be considerably lower than those two.
    All in all, I thought it was a very good competition with some strong performances.
    It is obvious that the result could have gone either way between the first two and Liza could have easily won had she not messed up her short.
    I don't understand the big deal about it .
    Also, I might be getting old but I don't remember an era where all the top ladies were regularly landing 6+ triples including 3-3s in every single competition like some posters seem to insinuate.
    As for me, I was pretty happy with what I saw at Euro's this this year, especially compared to what we were usually seeing in the past.

  4. #289
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Sotnikova got credit for having 5 triples in her program.. The Lutz got an edge call but it was still a triple.

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Clearly disagreeing with the result could only be because of ignorance
    ....since within your disagreement lies a number of blatantly ignorant observations.

  6. #291
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    To Bekalc

    No, according to the logic that has been recently spreading over here a jump with a wrong edge take-off shouldn't count at all, or shouldn't count as a clean triple.
    But maybe it only applies to certain skaters, while others get a free pass, not sure.

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by enzet View Post
    To Bekalc

    No, according to the logic that has been recently spreading over here a jump with a wrong edge take-off shouldn't count at all, or shouldn't count as a clean triple.
    But maybe it only applies to certain skaters, while others get a free pass, not sure.
    It was not completely clean but its a jump and far more difficult than the single, Kostner did. And I don't have a real issue with Kostner's win BTW.

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    It was not completely clean but its a jump and far more difficult than the single, Kostner did. And I don't have a real issue with Kostner's win BTW.
    I agree, and I have no issues with you. My comments were aimed at those who seem obsessed with counting the "clean" triples (no underrrotation, no edge call) and who now also seem to scream how Adelina was robbed.

  9. #294
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enzet View Post
    I agree, and I have no issues with you. My comments were aimed at those who seem obsessed with counting the "clean" triples (no underrrotation, no edge call) and who now also seem to scream how Adelina was robbed.
    I don't have a problem with what went down. I do think in general triples aren't rewarded enough in ladies, but Adelina only had one more triple than Kostner here soo.....(Although I guess two if you count the short)... I don't think its necessarily bad for Sotnikova not to be annointed Euros Queen right out of the gate. You want to beat the Champ, you've got to knock her down. I also think it will maybe encourage her to get better programs etc.... Those programs are dreck... And also take a little less pressure off... Imagine the pressure if she was going to her first Worlds As Queen of Europe having defeated the reigning World Champ!

    I do have some issues with those who feel it shouldn't even be discussed. Both Elizaveta and Adelina went for WAY more difficult jump content than Kostner did.....However, I think Tukt's pcs were a little high and Kostner deserves great PCS for her beautiful skating...

    I find it troubling in general that ladies are not going for the lutz or the 3flip anymore in the short...So I do think jumps need to be adjusted a bit more.. Although if that was done, I think the judges would have been justified scoring Tukt a bit lower in PCS.
    Last edited by bekalc; 01-26-2013 at 06:58 PM.

  10. #295
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    Guys, take a look at this... (The reaction of the commentors)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...lIsbg9o#t=468s

    I am laughing so much. Very funny!!


    lol

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by enzet View Post
    Well, since everyone seems to be so keen on counting the "clean" triples lately, let me just point out that both Sotnikova and Kostner landed 4.
    How "atrocious"! .
    Though Kostner's PCS seem a tad too high, it is deservedly higher than Sotnikova's, especially for that program.
    Liza's jumps were amazing, I think she deserved better GOE but her PCS should be considerably lower than those two.
    All in all, I thought it was a very good competition with some strong performances.
    It is obvious that the result could have gone either way between the first two and Liza could have easily won had she not messed up her short.
    I don't understand the big deal about it .
    Also, I might be getting old but I don't remember an era where all the top ladies were regularly landing 6+ triples including 3-3s in every single competition like some posters seem to insinuate.
    As for me, I was pretty happy with what I saw at Euro's this this year, especially compared to what we were usually seeing in the past.
    There was no easy winning for Liza! She barely won the long- Microscopic. At best her victory would have been microscopic. Unless I am misreading how you wrote easy. She won tech score wih 70. This is what I was predicting. Liza beats kostner by 10 in tech kostner beats her by 10 in pcs and you add that to the short score kostner wins. Pcs but also goe on spins and steps is not just something that you look in a manual to see how you get +3 or 8s or 9s and you do it. The isu rulebook gives guidelines but it's up to judges. Judges don't care about jumps in ladies. Kostner Mao Yuna are their favorites so mao and kostner don't need jumps or triples. Mao can do two triples in a free skate and 4 over a sp and lp and kostner can do double salchows as a main jump in a fs and it's no problem. If she landed two triple salchows she would have won but it didn't matter she almost won the free with double salchows and won the whole event with double salchow being a main jump
    Last edited by gmyers; 01-26-2013 at 07:34 PM.

  12. #297
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    Does Gosviani have the qualifying score?

  13. #298
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    Yes and her tickets for worlds are in the mail!!

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    ....since within your disagreement lies a number of blatantly ignorant observations.
    Attacking other posters may make you feel better but it doesn't change the fact other people's opinion other than yours may have merit. Why post if you just want to name call and shut down discussion?

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    There was no easy winning for Liza! She barely won the long- Microscopic. At best her victory would have been microscopic. Unless I am misreading how you wrote easy. She won tech score wih 70. This is what I was predicting. Liza beats kostner by 10 in tech kostner beats her by 10 in pcs and you add that to the short score kostner wins. Pcs but also goe on spins and steps is not just something that you look in a manual to see how you get +3 or 8s or 9s and you do it. The isu rulebook gives guidelines but it's up to judges. Judges don't care about jumps in ladies. Kostner Mao Yuna are their favorites so mao and kostner don't need jumps or triples. Mao can do two triples in a free skate and 4 over a sp and lp and kostner can do double salchows as a main jump in a fs and it's no problem. If she landed two triple salchows she would have won but it didn't matter she almost won the free with double salchows and won the whole event with double salchow being a main jump
    First of all there's some strong reasons for this. Elizaveta needs to work on her PCS. She tends to from many stay in the center of the rink. She needs to work on her skating skills/ ice coverage etc. The judges clearly were very close to giving Adelina the title even with Adelina's mistakes, so I don't think the issue here is the judges being unwilling to reward young talent...The judges want to see more than just jumps.

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