2013 Europeans Ladies LP

[Kinga]

Let me just say that it was an exciting competition... Also because it creates hot discussion

She needs to change her outfit to fit the music AND flatter her body, attempt something a little more complicated than a run-of-the-mill tango, do something more than just shake her hands about (jazz hands???) and attempt to actually present some kind of emotion or story on ice.

Seriously, look at what David Wilson did for Korpi, her sp this season is lovely, and yet he can't help Tuktamysheva. She is just NOT an artist, at least not yet.

I agree that Liza needs better packaging (costume, choreo), but the fact that she is not an artist, does not mean she should not win the LP more convicingly based on her athletic merits. It is a sport after all, and I must say that the excellent execution of technical elemets rises the overall quality of her program and increases the general impression. Her perfect jumps do give some extra boost and wow factor to this program, which is not exactly there, when she fails to deliver jumps.

I'm glad the overall best skater won over terrible program with good jumps and terrible technique with so-so program.
So many haters!

Lol, looks who's talking .

Carolina is the only woman here with an actual program. If you seriously think Adelina or Elizaveta should win with those kind of "programs" that just look so cheap, you need a good hard slap to the face, IMHO!

I think that Adelinas and Liza's programs are not masterpieces, but what they did technically compared to Carolina, somehow balances out this deficiency. This is the opinion of many posters and most of them they tried to justify their opinions in a honest solid discussion. Thus, I dont think they need a slap to their faces, just because you happen do think otherwise. I think what you say is actually little insulting.
And it's not that Kostner's LP is a masterpiece either. YEs, she is fast. Yes, she has a great presence (willowy, mature, graceful), but her LP is just skating from an element to element.
Yet, I would gladly see Adelina getting much better LP... She deserves it and this one is just a waste of her talent - her musicality, lovely plasticity of her movements and flow are just lost in the current one. HEr lines are hidden. And I personally think that her spiral is better than Carolina's (my 2 cents to the discussion on Kostner's spirals before in this thread). But then again, she is only 17... So she might need some time to develop. Yet, even in age of 17 it wouldnt hurt if she got a better material to start with.

[Kinga]

Looking beyond the podium:
--Marchei should be proud of herself.
--Glad at least one Helgesson made the top 5.
--Gosviani is not a stinker like some posters have made her out to be. I was pleasantly surprised, though she's got a way to go.
--Elena G and Elene G are my biggest as they are so much better than how they executed. Ladies, GET IT TOGETHER. Glebova's program was probably my favorite of the free skates.

I absolutely LOVE this program (Glebova's). It's voidy verging on sensual, has super light and shade,and uses some lovely musical nuances. Shame about the jumps, but most original program I've seen in years.

ITA with what you guys said. Im mad that Elena Glebova never lives up to her potential. She is such an interesting skater.. Powerfull jumps, good skating skills, good presence on ice, and often she has great programs. But she never delivers when it counts, plus judges dont do her any favours... Yes, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER, ELena!
Im thrilled for Valentina. It is actually a pity (in some way) that the competition was so tough today, because I feel it would be great if she medalled. I have never been her fan, but she won me over this season (great program, great costumes, a lot of joy in her skating).
I like Gosviani.. I hope she continues to improve!

Agreed, that's why I said it was more amusing to see so many people going ballistic over a close competition which really could have gone either way.

Yet, somehow it always goes Kostner's way

[MK's Winter]

Agreed. And that is what sucks- the winner was known in advance if Caro skated clean more or less. I don't think that if Sotnikova hadn't popped her flip, she wouldn have won. They would simply have adjusted Caro's PCS and GOE better . She didn't deserve the title today with 4 triples (I wonder where are all those Mao bashers now who were so loud about her 66 PCS with 4 tripes). To win with less than a point to some Junior debutante is pretty embarrasing by itself. It's even more embarrsing to have BV of second 10s in RN charts (except Makarova). And in case of Caro it's not for the first time. She is repeatedly "pulled" on top by PCS. The charming chart was done by some poster on Yuan forum (all green- won by PCS): http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/w...rotespcs-1.jpg Don Ottavia should be really happy to enjoy how this system works.
Liza is the best jumper. Just a monster. Adelina was very good too. It's not that easy to skate jazz, especially with strong vocal. But she seems like united with the music and was having fun all around. I am always very grateful to girls when they use something different that ice princess's stuff and overused music. Anyway, good work for all Russian babies. Photos of Adelya and Liza:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkXe6MCEAE7P-K.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkWb9ICMAAJJvp.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkW84PCcAETk4I.jpg

Thanks for the beautiful pictures! It's nice to see that they are happy and support each other !

[FSGMT]

I'm now back from Zagreb, and I can tell you that I don't understand why a lot of people here are discussing the results: I think that the competition was judged really well, everyone deserved the placement that the judges gave her. My impressions about the top5:
Carolina: I'm biased, yes, because I'm a big fan of her, but I have to say that I always find her SS magnificent: with one step she covers all the rink, her speed, her use of edges is something incredible, no-one there was even comparable to her talking about ss (maybe Sotnikova a bit). Then, her jumps: they are so big, they have great height, speed, flow, distance, something telegraphed but AMAZING!! Her Bolero is something incredible: she almost hypnotized us, when she was skating it was like being in another world, it was not just "executing a program", it was "living a program". That's all I can say, and I think it's enough! (And, I think that her program had really a lot of transitions, certainly more and better executed than Liza's or Adelina's!) And, to all the ones that are still criticizing her jumps: she landed both 3F+3T and 3Lz+3T during the morning practice!
Adelina: I was so happy to see her skating well, her SP was perfect and she surprised me in the FS: I thought that she was going to bomb, but she didn't: she skated extremely well in the morning practice and in the warm up (landing some clean 3Lz+3Ts, too), and then made just two mistakes in the FS, she really deserved the silver medal and let me say that I even liked her program!
Liza: she didn't skate very well her SP, she looked really nervous before it and really didn't show her best, artistically, but she did perform her best in the FS. During the morning practice, she landed 3Lz+3T only once and it looked to me that she was nervous about her 3Lz: she tried a lot of singles and doubles but never even attempted it so, when she landed it in the FS, it was like a "YESS" and she was so happy that everything else looked easy. She looked a lot more nervous than Adelina, overall, and I think that her score was correct, if not a bit too high: she was evidently slower than Adelina and Caro and I didn't like her interpretation at all, it looked really juniorish, but she skated cleanily and she was really trying to interpret the music; 61 was still e bit too high, for me.
I'm going to upload all the videos that I made here: http://www.youtube.com/user/FSGMTVideos/videos?view=0 thank you for watching!

[Itcaip]

And, to all the ones that are still criticizing her jumps: she landed both 3F+3T and 3Lz+3T during the morning practice!

3Lz-3T, really?

I hope you made videos of her morning practice?

[LRK]

Anyone who thinks Tut skated like a champion here is lying, delusional or straight-up stupid.

Thank you, you are excessively kind.

Weren't you chiding someone for rudeness in another thread, by the way?

And no, I have no particular "beef" with the final standings, but yes, I think Liza skated like a champion, and she won the FP fair & square. So, which of the three charming possibilities applies to me, I'll just leave to your discretion to determine.

[bekalc]

And, to all the ones that are still criticizing her jumps: she landed both 3F+3T and 3Lz+3T during the morning practice!

Okay... I have no problem with Kostner's win, but landing 3/3s in practice doesn't count...We have a clip of Elizaveta landing a 3axel in practice... Its always doing it in competition that is the difficult part. And I have no doubt Kostner would agree with me here.

Now it is good to know Kostner is working on adding those things in...

[FSGMT]

3Lz-3T, really?

I hope you made videos of her morning practice?

Unfortunately, I wasn't filming in those moments, I hope someone else was, because the 3F+3T was really beautiful, the 3Lz+3T was not incredible because the lutz was close to the banisters so she had to do a "small" 3T, but it was surely fully rotated! But I filmed her FS runthrough (I will upload it tomorrow, I think), even though it wasn't spectacular: she fell in the 3Lz there...

[Tanja90]

Okay... I have no problem with Kostner's win, but landing 3/3s in practice doesn't count...We have a clip of Elizaveta landing a 3axel in practice... Its always doing it in competition that is the difficult part. And I have no doubt Kostner would agree with me here.

Now it is good to know Kostner is working on adding those things in...

You are right...doing it in practice is a thing but doing them in competition is another treat. Still I found the fact that she is training them and planning at least one of them really admirable! She is not so young anymore but she still is able to land perfect jumps and beautiful combos, especially the one with the lutz after her injury. Even if she won't be able to do it at worlds, this carolina really surprises me!

[Ziggy]

I was very disappointed with Kostner's program.

Her SP was lovely but the FS really lacked transitions, had long and telegraphed entries into most jumps and was mostly skated through the music until the end where she showed some great expression.

Amazing posture, amazing basic skating, beautiful lines and extensions but crap choreography.

I'm not saying she didn't necessarily deserve to win overall but I am very underwhelmed with her FS. :/

Tuktamysheva gave an incredible performance. Not only technically but her upper body movement was busy throughout the program. She does need to work on her posture and some overall polishing work is needed. I guess that will come with time, she's already improved her PCS abilities significantly since last season. I felt disappointed with her not winning but then, she only has herself to blame for blowing the SP.

Sotnikova left me cold again. Her basics are ok but her programs had no style or character.

I'd probably place Tuktamysheva first, Kostner second and Sotnikova third overall but I am not really gonna argue about that since this just going off a general impression and who knows how the actual scores would turn out if you added everything up.

[shine]

There was a little bit too much two foot skating in Carolina's program for my rational mind. But her program appealed to me in every emotional way and artistically I thought it was wonderful. Transitions only add so much to a masterpiece of a performance like that IMO. The use of her entire body throughout the program was so masterful and well thought out. I also loved all the unexpected changes of direction throughout.

[gmyers]

Agreed. And that is what sucks- the winner was known in advance if Caro skated clean more or less. I don't think that if Sotnikova hadn't popped her flip, she wouldn have won. They would simply have adjusted Caro's PCS and GOE better . She didn't deserve the title today with 4 triples (I wonder where are all those Mao bashers now who were so loud about her 66 PCS with 4 tripes). To win with less than a point to some Junior debutante is pretty embarrasing by itself. It's even more embarrsing to have BV of second 10s in RN charts (except Makarova). And in case of Caro it's not for the first time. She is repeatedly "pulled" on top by PCS. The charming chart was done by some poster on Yuan forum (all green- won by PCS): http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/w...rotespcs-1.jpg Don Ottavia should be really happy to enjoy how this system works.
Liza is the best jumper. Just a monster. Adelina was very good too. It's not that easy to skate jazz, especially with strong vocal. But she seems like united with the music and was having fun all around. I am always very grateful to girls when they use something different that ice princess's stuff and overused music. Anyway, good work for all Russian babies. Photos of Adelya and Liza:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkXe6MCEAE7P-K.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkWb9ICMAAJJvp.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkW84PCcAETk4I.jpg

It's very embarrassing. With the system you just know because kostner is very good at what she does well I just doesn't matter how low she goes in jumps as long as they are not singles! She can't single a jump but she can design a program with two double salchows and win. She can show some people in practice 3lz 3T and 3fl3t so when she does her double salchows and wins how great her amazing practice 3/3's. It's very embarrassing.

I am not saying corruption or back room deals just what is going on in ladies? The cop system in ladies is just horribly broken. Kostner almost won the free skate doing double salchows as a main jump. Two jumping passes were with doubles and it wasn't even double axels! Just incredible.

So her double salchows were great double salchows-they are still double salchows.

[Ziggy]

Cry more gmyers. Thank god we now have a system where (at least theoretically) everything gets rewarded and not just the jumps.

There was a little bit too much two foot skating in Carolina's program for my rational mind. But her program appealed to me in every emotional way and artistically I thought it was wonderful. Transitions only add so much to a masterpiece of a performance like that IMO. The use of her entire body throughout the program was so masterful and well thought out. I also loved all the unexpected changes of direction throughout.

Hmm those are very good points.

[bekalc]

It's very embarrassing. With the system you just know because kostner is very good at what she does well I just doesn't matter how low she goes in jumps as long as they are not singles! She can't single a jump but she can design a program with two double salchows and win. She can show some people in practice 3lz 3T and 3fl3t so when she does her double salchows and wins how great her amazing practice 3/3's. It's very embarrassing.

I am not saying corruption or back room deals just what is going on in ladies? The cop system in ladies is just horribly broken. Kostner almost won the free skate doing double salchows as a main jump. Two jumping passes were with doubles and it wasn't even double axels! Just incredible.

So her double salchows were great double salchows-they are still double salchows.

Kostner didn't design a program with two double jumps....

[FlattFan]

Maybe Liza and Adelina can learn to project, can find good programs, can go back to basic and relearn skating skills, then they can start doing double salchow and win Euro.