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Thread: 2013 Europeans Ladies LP

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Cry more gmyers. Thank god we now have a system where (at least theoretically) everything gets rewarded and not just the jumps.

    I'd like to know where exactly jumps are being rewarded at all and where this season has any competition been won with respectable jump like 3/3 or lutz and flip and have a SP and LP with those things? NWR?

    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Kostner didn't design a program with two double jumps....
    the doubles didn't seem like accidents. watching it there is no hint of accident

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Maybe Liza and Adelina can learn to project, can find good programs, can go back to basic and relearn skating skills, then they can start doing double salchow and win Euro.
    This is where things are going- mao can do underrotated triples and win 2ith 3 triples over sp and lp and kostner can do 4 and fill up two jumping passes with double salchows in addition to her double axels.

  2. #332
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    the doubles didn't seem like accidents. watching it there is no hint of accident
    No, she landed a 3S in the warm-up and she didn't have any problem in landing 3S+2T+2Lo and the solo 3S in all the practices (including her FS runthrough that morning as you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFoLh...ature=youtu.be), so I don't understand why she should have planned two 2Ss, she was just tired and made a couple of mistakes, that's all (she said in the press conference that after the first 3' she realized that she was really tired so that's probably why she did only the 2S)!
    Last edited by FSGMT; 01-28-2013 at 06:16 AM.

  3. #333
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    Kostner's 3-3's during practice:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrKEB763d7U

    Great attempts!

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I'd like to know where exactly jumps are being rewarded at all and where this season has any competition been won with respectable jump like 3/3 or lutz and flip and have a SP and LP with those things? NWR?
    Cup of Russia comes close, I suppose. Gold landed a 3-3 (with the flip) along with a lutz in the short. She lost to Kira Korpi, who landed a 3-3 and both the lutz and flip in the long.

    the doubles didn't seem like accidents. watching it there is no hint of accident
    Which demonstrates just how intelligent her blade has become, but if we look at her Italian National Championship LP, indeed we see that they were.

    This is where things are going- mao can do underrotated triples and win 2ith 3 triples over sp and lp and kostner can do 4 and fill up two jumping passes with double salchows in addition to her double axels.
    Well, no. After all, Eliza Tukatmisheva doubled her lutz in the short and didn't do the flip; Adelina singled the flip in her long and didn't do a fully rotated triple triple. If she does one fully rotated 3-3 OR doubles the flip, she wins.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by berrycute View Post
    The Russian girls did even better on the tech side but they were so MANY MANY MILES behind Caro in artistry that they could never have come close to narrowing the gap that much.
    No, dear. It's more like Caro did better on maturity and edges but she was so many miles away from the TES ability of Russian babies that she could never come close to secure the gap.
    Anyone who thinks Tut skated like a champion here is lying, delusional or straight-up stupid.
    I am not sure what exactly people want to gain with this kind of statement: "If you don't think like me, you are idiots". Lame insults speaks about the lack of argument and poor debating skills.
    Just how strong do you think the Italian fed is?
    Don Ottavia. Serioulsy, the issue with Caro is that she has been pulled by PCS more than ANY other skater in Ladies. The chart that I was refering too is from this source where the poster made similar charts on all top ladies: http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4376 . And no one could come even close to Caro, not even Mao who is a better performer, and who is often critized for winning with 4 triples or somesuch. It really doesn't make any sense to challenge a way more difficult prog if it's not rewarded as it should be.

  6. #336
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    And no one could come even close to Caro, not even Mao who is a better performer, and who is often critized for winning with 4 triples or somesuch. It really doesn't make any sense to challenge a way more difficult prog if it's not rewarded as it should be.


    Nor does she have the skating skills or whole-body choreography of Kostner .

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    Kostner did deserve pcs she received and she was by far the best in this section. If pcs wouldn't make any difference to different skaters, why including them in the score? Let's decide to give marks just based on tes, or maybe just on jumps without even counting URs or wrong edges. I don't really understand why you always complain on someone's victory. Of course Liza gave a terrific technical performance and got rewarded for this on tes as it should be, but was very slow and skated almost her entire routine on the centre of the rink. People seem to forget that skating from board to board, covering the whole rink, getting high speed requires a lot of energy from the skaters and not anybody can do it. However Liza would have won if she hadn't collected 7 points of gap from kostner in the short program and her amazing free skate wasn't enough.
    I was so impressed by Sotnikova as I thought she would have felt the pressure a lot more but she held on! I hope she can fix her wrong edge problem on the lutz, otherwise she will always get negative goes on her triple-triple combo. And she was nicely rewarded by the judges with a 64 poinst pcs

  8. #338
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    Choreographically, Kostner's Bolero is boring, common place; her performance, lackluster. Her skate lacks the required tension that was evident even in Kwan's version. Compared to Kwan's version, it seems empty. Is this really the version she plans to skate at World's? And why the telegraphing of that first jump? It seemed almost as if she had had a lapse and thought she was skating under 6.0.

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    No, dear. It's more like Caro did better on maturity and edges but she was so many miles away from the TES ability of Russian babies that she could never come close to secure the gap.
    I am not sure what exactly people want to gain with this kind of statement: "If you don't think like me, you are idiots". Lame insults speaks about the lack of argument and poor debating skills.
    No, dear. The Russian babies beat her TES by a few points in the LP, adelina beat her by 2. So many miles away from the TES ability? Really? Talk about stupidity.

    Don Ottavia. Serioulsy, the issue with Caro is that she has been pulled by PCS more than ANY other skater in Ladies. The chart that I was refering too is from this source where the poster made similar charts on all top ladies: http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4376 . And no one could come even close to Caro, not even Mao who is a better performer, and who is often critized for winning with 4 triples or somesuch. It really doesn't make any sense to challenge a way more difficult prog if it's not rewarded as it should be.
    Mao has weaker jumps, skating skills, and performance skill. A weaker skater overall. I love Mao dearly, but this is wrong.

    lutz, Caro >>> Mao
    flip, Caro >> Mao
    loop, Caro >> Mao (she can execute the loop with preceding steps, exit transitions effortlessly)
    salchow, Caro >> Mao
    toe, Caro >> mao (she can do 3T3T, 3F3T easily)

    It's insane to think Mao is a better skater.

  10. #340
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by figureskate View Post
    I was so impressed by Sotnikova as I thought she would have felt the pressure a lot more but she held on! I hope she can fix her wrong edge problem on the lutz, otherwise she will always get negative goes on her triple-triple combo. And she was nicely rewarded by the judges with a 64 poinst pcs
    I don't understand why Sotnikova insists on doing 3lutz-3 combos. Her flutz is quite persistent and obvious. Can't she use 3f instead? Or is she just attempting them and hoping that the caller wouldn't catch it everytime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Choreographically, Kostner's Bolero is boring, common place; her performance, lackluster. Her skate lacks the required tension that was evident even in Kwan's version. Compared to Kwan's version, it seems empty. Is this really the version she plans to skate at World's? And why the telegraphing of that first jump? It seemed almost as if she had had a lapse and thought she was skating under 6.0.
    This whole post is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Kwan's Bolero? Are you kidding me?? If there's an empty program, it's Kwan's Bolero. I think we were watching two different programs. Yep.
    Last edited by shine; 01-28-2013 at 02:22 PM.

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Okay... I have no problem with Kostner's win, but landing 3/3s in practice doesn't count...We have a clip of Elizaveta landing a 3axel in practice... Its always doing it in competition that is the difficult part. And I have no doubt Kostner would agree with me here.

    Now it is good to know Kostner is working on adding those things in...
    Exactly. EVERY senior ladies figure skater practices or attempts triple-triples. Mao does 3Axels and 3Lo-3Lo in practice. Even Ashley Wagner, Caroline Zhang and Mirai Nagasu practice them. Landing them in competitions and getting them ratified by the tech panel, well, that's entirely different. I think the last time Kostner landed a 3Lz+3T in competition was 2003-2004, when 6.0 was still in place.

    She's not gonna go for it unless she's pressured to feel like she needs it. Yuna is going first among the top contenders at Worlds in the short program, so it'll be interesting to see what the last group will do in their SP's. Because it's so critical to go clean in the short, I expect Carolina not to change her SP layout even if Yuna is clean.

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Choreographically, Kostner's Bolero is boring, common place; her performance, lackluster. Her skate lacks the required tension that was evident even in Kwan's version. Compared to Kwan's version, it seems empty. Is this really the version she plans to skate at World's? And why the telegraphing of that first jump? It seemed almost as if she had had a lapse and thought she was skating under 6.0.
    Sorry? Kwan's Bolero is the most empty program I've ever seen if there ever was one. She just skated from one element to the other doing completely nothing in between. It almost matched the emptiness of her Tosca.

    There is a lot of choreography going in Kostner's version actually...

  13. #343
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine
    I don't understand why Sotnikova insists on doing 3lutz-3 combos. Her flutz is quite persistent and obvious. Can't she use 3f instead? Or is she just attempting them and hoping that the caller wouldn't catch it everytime?
    I'm not getting that either. Over the last off-season there was a report that showed her practicing different 3-3's, 3S-3T and 3F-3T too. The 3F-3T would look like the best choice, 3F-3T + 3Lo would make for a nice SP. Maybe the 3F-3T is not that easy for her (not enough speed coming out of the 3F...?), but I thought she was doing 3F-3Lo at some point before too.

  14. #344
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    last season she was doing 3Flutz-3Lo but didnt get full credit on it
    I dont think she will ever do a 3F-3T in competition considering her 3F is her least secure triple jump

  15. #345
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Choreographically, Kostner's Bolero is boring, common place; her performance, lackluster. Her skate lacks the required tension that was evident even in Kwan's version. Compared to Kwan's version, it seems empty. Is this really the version she plans to skate at World's? And why the telegraphing of that first jump? It seemed almost as if she had had a lapse and thought she was skating under 6.0.
    After seeing her program live, and hearing what all the skating experts said about it, what all the fans that I talked to in the arena said about it, the reaction that the crowd (at least 70% not Italians) gave her and the marks that the judges gave her, I could understand someone saying that they don't go crazy for Caro's Bolero or that they think that it's not her best program ever (I still prefer her last year's FS), but saying that "Her skate lacks the required tension" or that it's "boring, common place; her performance, lackluster" is really nonsense! And, about the comparison with Kwan's Bolero: thinking that, choreographically, Carolina's program is worse than Kwan's (Bolero was actually her worst program, choreographically) is something that simply doesn't make any sense to me, I'm sorry...

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