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Thread: Kaetlyn vs Adelina vs Liza vs Gracie

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    If you saw Gold's Nationals FS performance you wouldn't be so fast to dismiss her. 3f/3t, 2a/3t, 3lo, 2a, 3z, 3fe+3t+3t, 3s. She does all the triples except 3a, but she can be inconsistent.
    Gold may lip, but Osmond and Sotnikova flutz.
    Osmond has had one clean FS (Challenge, against much lesser skaters) out of 4 this season---no better than Gold's record. In her FS, she has no 3/3 or 3lo and only one 3z. Technically, she is the weakest of the four.
    Sotnikova's 3/3 at Euros was scored 3z+3t< and she singled her flip. She does all the triples, but hasn't had a clean FS all season.
    Tuktamysheva neither flutzes nor lips, she has a clean 3z+3t, and she does all the triples, but she can be somewhat inconsistent.
    Chuck, put things in perspective, Gold skated after finishing 9th in the SP. Even Scott and Sandra thought she was skating without pressure, aka. consolation prize. When Osmond skated without pressure at the Challenge because she already qualified - she merely took part for the experience - she skated clean SP and LP. Lots of girls can skate clean or almost clean when they are not under pressure. Finishing 9th after the SP tends to take a lot of pressure off skaters because generally speaking, chance of making the podium is quite slim. Gold's track record is quite mixed internationally and when she is under pressure, like in the SP. It remains to be seen how she handles pressure because she hasn't won any ISU Senior event yet or even the Nationals, which all other 3 girls in this thread have already done.

  2. #32
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    All I can say, is I'm happy that each of them had key moments at their respective Nationals/Europeans and I'm excited to see all four at Worlds and how they will stack up against each other. And with that, I shall depart from this thread.

  3. #33
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    I think all 4 girls have their respective strengths and weaknesses. It remains to be seen how they develop from here. Fortunately, they will meet each other this year at Worlds, this is very exciting.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Lots of girls can skate clean or almost clean when they are not under pressure.
    This. That's why I think we should wait and see. When Gold skated under the pressure of expectations (Skate Canada) - she bombed, and later (Cup of Russia) she had nothing to loose because GPF was already out of reach and skated better. Same with Nationals. As for Osmond, we haven't seen her under pressure yet. She was a dark horse at Skate Canada and had absolutely nothing to loose (and her FS wasn't perfect by the way), and hardly had any rival at Canadian Nationals. At 4CC and especially Worlds in Canada the expectations will be higher, the rivals much stronger and the pressure is going to be big. Let's see how she does.
    As for Adelina and Liza, I think they are going the right direction and handled the pressure well at Europeans, but Worlds will be a real test

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I did see Gracie's free program at Nationals. I agree she has gorgeous jumps. Probably the biggest of them all. She seems to have good speed but the rest of her skating is meh. I'm dismissing the she has great body line, wonderful performance ability, schpeel. It could change but right now if all went clean, I'd absolutely give it to Sotnikova. Even Tukt has better presentation IMO. This doesn't mean Gold can't work on it but right now.....Wonderful performance/beautiful artistry Gold doesn't have.

    (amazing jumps yes, I never argued Gold didn't have amazing jumps) This isn't pole vaulting.. Things like spins, positions, footwork should matter too, which is why I go with Sotnikova who has plenty of jump height and has the rest all over Gold.
    I have no idea why you think Sotnikova would win so easily if all skated cleanly. She might win, but it wouldnt be a blowout, all these girls would only be in the 5-8 range at Worlds if it was a cleanly skated event anyway, so their scores wouldnt be that far apart. Sotnikova's SP at Nationals was clean and she lost the short program to Tukt who hard a harder triple-triple quite easily. I think Osmond would beat her in the SP if both were clean too. In the LP she had her best LP in years and still was easily beaten in it by Tukt (not to mention junior jumping Kostner) and even had she been totally clean would have been virtualy tied with Tukt at Europeans in the LP, and I already noted what happened in the SP when both skated cleanly. Her PCS were barely higher (while light years behind Kostner's) than Tukt in the Europeans SP, not to mention at the Russian Nationals. From seeing your posts relating to Sotnikova though you are an enormous fan of hers and have an impossible time being objective on her.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 01-27-2013 at 02:53 AM.

  6. #36
    Custom Title Cherryy's Avatar
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    I think what actually matters here is the number of triples they perform, since they all can't rely on PCS. So a better question instead of "who will win if all skate clean" is who is the most likely to skate clean. And it's hard to say at this point but it's definitely not Sotnikova. Even though she's a well-rounded skater and has nice spins, costistency is her problem. On the other hand I find Liza to cope well with the pressure and stress. As somebody has said before, Kaetlyn does not have a hard triple-triple and her jump content is generally the weakest.
    Everything will be clearer after 4cc. Winning a medal at Euros is definitely an advantage for Adelina and Elizaveta.

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    I think Gracie has the best chance. Money. American power. power, the right body type - graceful yet powerful. A good head on her shoulders. Musical and elegant. ET has problems with pcs. Osmond lacks content and big experience. Adelina is inconsistent (well so is ET).

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I think Gracie has the best chance. Money. American power. power, the right body type - graceful yet powerful. A good head on her shoulders. Musical and elegant. ET has problems with pcs. Osmond lacks content and big experience. Adelina is inconsistent (well so is ET).
    I think Liza is one of the most consistent here, actually..She had a growth spurt - still deals with it - but it seems that everything is fine now)

  9. #39
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    Gracie still lacks refinement and some artistry. Going to another choreographer would do her a lot of good. Having said that if she does learn to become more mature on the ice she will be formidable.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    :lol: This was nationals.....Lets see her get a level 4 by an international panel. Like Kostner, Sotnikova have managed. I did like her last spin though.
    Here we go. Cup of Russia----3 level 4's ; level 3 stsq

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FS_Scores.pdf

  11. #41
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Here we go. Cup of Russia----3 level 4's ; level 3 stsq

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FS_Scores.pdf
    I'm more questioning the level 4 step sequence. Lots of girls get level 4 spins the difference is on the GOE....Sotnikova/Kostner can get level 4 step sequences INTERNATIONALY.

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I have no idea why you think Sotnikova would win so easily if all skated cleanly. She might win, but it wouldnt be a blowout, all these girls would only be in the 5-8 range at Worlds if it was a cleanly skated event anyway, so their scores wouldnt be that far apart. Sotnikova's SP at Nationals was clean and she lost the short program to Tukt who hard a harder triple-triple quite easily. I think Osmond would beat her in the SP if both were clean too. In the LP she had her best LP in years and still was easily beaten in it by Tukt (not to mention junior jumping Kostner) and even had she been totally clean would have been virtualy tied with Tukt at Europeans in the LP, and I already noted what happened in the SP when both skated cleanly. Her PCS were barely higher (while light years behind Kostner's) than Tukt in the Europeans SP, not to mention at the Russian Nationals. From seeing your posts relating to Sotnikova though you are an enormous fan of hers and have an impossible time being objective on her.
    Adelina had a jump downgraded and popped another jump. Her score was quite close to Tukts considering all of this....In terms of Adelina, I was impressed with how she handled Euros. She was in the lead, and even after the popped jump held it together. I think Adelina is slowly coming around. I like Adelina the best of these girls because I feel she's the most polished. (Although she still has some work to do there)...

    I wouldn't say Gracie has no future, she has amazing jumps. But she has a lot of work to do on the PCS area, I think she's the worst performer of all these girls. (She seemed to tally disconnected from the performance at the Nationals skate). It does her a diservice for people to say differently....Amazing jumps though.
    Last edited by bekalc; 01-27-2013 at 07:51 AM.

  12. #42
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan
    I think Osmond would beat her in the SP if both were clean too. In the LP she had her best LP in years and still was easily beaten in it by Tukt (not to mention junior jumping Kostner) and even had she been totally clean would have been virtualy tied with Tukt at Europeans in the LP, and I already noted what happened in the SP when both skated cleanly. Her PCS were barely higher (while light years behind Kostner's) than Tukt in the Europeans SP, not to mention at the Russian Nationals.
    But at Nebenhorn Adelina fell in the SP and still came out ahead of Kaetlyn. You might argue that Kaetlyns PCS weren't as high then as they would be now, but I doubt that difference would make up for the additional points Adelina would be getting if she was clean. At Russian nationals, Adelina was clean as far as the jumps go, put she had some problems with two of her spins, losing levels and +GOE there. She might still have lost to Liza, but definitly not by that much (meaning about 2.5 points here).

    Generally, I love all of those girls, all for completly different reasons. I'm very happy we have all 4 of them at worlds this year!
    If you seperate this a little...(because I'm a little bored and in the mood for it)

    Jumps: Liza > Gracie > Adelina > Kaetlyn
    I think it's easy to see that Liza and Gracie are ahead in this regard. All these girls are capable of getting huge +GOE, but Liza has amazing technique and a clean Lutz + Flip. Gracie might have even more power and height, but she lips. I'd have Adelina over Kaetlyn simply because Kaetlyn doesn't have the Loop. The others are capable of 7-triple LP's. Adelina flutzes, but Kaetlyn has edge call issues herself.

    Spins: Adelina > Gracie > Kaetlyn > Liza
    The difference between Gracie and Kaetlyn isn't really that big, but I think Gracie's speed can be pretty insane. Liza really loses ground in this regard, and Adelina is fairly well ahead.

    Steps: Adelina > Kaetlyn > Gracie = Liza
    Probably the closest department. Adelina earnd Lv 4's at europeans, I think Keatlyn did too at Nebelhorn, not sure about her other competitions. Those two are a little ahead of Liza and Gracie here.

    For the PCS: I think Adelina would win it on SS, TR should go to Kaetlyn and IN to Liza. Not too sure how I would rate PE if all are clean and really on. But I guess Gracie is going to be left behind a little for now. CH-wise, I'd say Kaetlyn for the SP and Liza for the FS. Overall that's going to be pretty close, but probably it would end up something like Kaetlyn = Adelina > Liza > Gracie. Or at least that's what I think should happen.
    (For Gracie's PCS, it's just that she still is so unpolished and needs way better choreographys. But the potential is there. She's just been appearing on the scene last season, all she needs is time and experience. She very well may develop into a full-package skater.)

    So overall, I think Gracie is lacking too much in the PCS department (for now!), and Kaetlyn doesn't have the same scoring potential as the other 3 have in the FS. So for now, I'd say Liza and Adelina are ahead here, with Adelina slightly beating Liza due to being a better overall skater, eventhough Liza is a better jumper.

  13. #43
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    Tuk sill has poor ice coverage. Plus i don't think Tuk is that great of a performer right now either. Osmond seems to be the best in terms of performance and really skating with a lot of personality.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Tuk sill has poor ice coverage. Plus i don't think Tuk is that great of a performer right now either. Osmond seems to be the best in terms of performance and really skating with a lot of personality.
    Why? I think she shows a lot of emotions while skating
    As I've already said, all of them have their pros and cons...I hope Liza develops this aspect of skating)

  15. #45
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers
    Plus i don't think Tuk is that great of a performer right now either.
    She's a very good performer to my eyes. I don't really get why people say she's lacking in that regard.
    Dunno about Kaetlyn being better than the others. Liza is just as good as she is, I think. Adelina is a little stiff in competitions, but watching her Ex programms, the perfromance ability is easily there. Kaetlyn seems to have more fire (than Adelina, not seeing her better than Liza here again), but I'd argue that Adelina has better body lines and more elegance. Additionally, Kaetlyns programms are both very attack-y and spunky, not sure how versatile she is. I think both Liza and Adelina are.

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