Kaetlyn vs Adelina vs Liza vs Gracie | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Kaetlyn vs Adelina vs Liza vs Gracie

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006

I'm more questioning the level 4 step sequence. Lots of girls get level 4 spins the difference is on the GOE....Sotnikova/Kostner can get level 4 step sequences INTERNATIONALY.

I have no idea why you think Sotnikova would win so easily if all skated cleanly. She might win, but it wouldnt be a blowout, all these girls would only be in the 5-8 range at Worlds if it was a cleanly skated event anyway, so their scores wouldnt be that far apart. Sotnikova's SP at Nationals was clean and she lost the short program to Tukt who hard a harder triple-triple quite easily. I think Osmond would beat her in the SP if both were clean too. In the LP she had her best LP in years and still was easily beaten in it by Tukt (not to mention junior jumping Kostner) and even had she been totally clean would have been virtualy tied with Tukt at Europeans in the LP, and I already noted what happened in the SP when both skated cleanly. Her PCS were barely higher (while light years behind Kostner's) than Tukt in the Europeans SP, not to mention at the Russian Nationals. From seeing your posts relating to Sotnikova though you are an enormous fan of hers and have an impossible time being objective on her.

Adelina had a jump downgraded and popped another jump. Her score was quite close to Tukts considering all of this....In terms of Adelina, I was impressed with how she handled Euros. She was in the lead, and even after the popped jump held it together. I think Adelina is slowly coming around. I like Adelina the best of these girls because I feel she's the most polished. (Although she still has some work to do there)...

I wouldn't say Gracie has no future, she has amazing jumps. But she has a lot of work to do on the PCS area, I think she's the worst performer of all these girls. (She seemed to tally disconnected from the performance at the Nationals skate). It does her a diservice for people to say differently....Amazing jumps though.
 
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Li'Kitsu

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Dec 29, 2011
pangtongfan said:
I think Osmond would beat her in the SP if both were clean too. In the LP she had her best LP in years and still was easily beaten in it by Tukt (not to mention junior jumping Kostner) and even had she been totally clean would have been virtualy tied with Tukt at Europeans in the LP, and I already noted what happened in the SP when both skated cleanly. Her PCS were barely higher (while light years behind Kostner's) than Tukt in the Europeans SP, not to mention at the Russian Nationals.

But at Nebenhorn Adelina fell in the SP and still came out ahead of Kaetlyn. You might argue that Kaetlyns PCS weren't as high then as they would be now, but I doubt that difference would make up for the additional points Adelina would be getting if she was clean. At Russian nationals, Adelina was clean as far as the jumps go, put she had some problems with two of her spins, losing levels and +GOE there. She might still have lost to Liza, but definitly not by that much (meaning about 2.5 points here).

Generally, I love all of those girls, all for completly different reasons. I'm very happy we have all 4 of them at worlds this year!
If you seperate this a little...(because I'm a little bored and in the mood for it)

Jumps: Liza > Gracie > Adelina > Kaetlyn
I think it's easy to see that Liza and Gracie are ahead in this regard. All these girls are capable of getting huge +GOE, but Liza has amazing technique and a clean Lutz + Flip. Gracie might have even more power and height, but she lips. I'd have Adelina over Kaetlyn simply because Kaetlyn doesn't have the Loop. The others are capable of 7-triple LP's. Adelina flutzes, but Kaetlyn has edge call issues herself.

Spins: Adelina > Gracie > Kaetlyn > Liza
The difference between Gracie and Kaetlyn isn't really that big, but I think Gracie's speed can be pretty insane. Liza really loses ground in this regard, and Adelina is fairly well ahead.

Steps: Adelina > Kaetlyn > Gracie = Liza
Probably the closest department. Adelina earnd Lv 4's at europeans, I think Keatlyn did too at Nebelhorn, not sure about her other competitions. Those two are a little ahead of Liza and Gracie here.

For the PCS: I think Adelina would win it on SS, TR should go to Kaetlyn and IN to Liza. Not too sure how I would rate PE if all are clean and really on. But I guess Gracie is going to be left behind a little for now. CH-wise, I'd say Kaetlyn for the SP and Liza for the FS. Overall that's going to be pretty close, but probably it would end up something like Kaetlyn = Adelina > Liza > Gracie. Or at least that's what I think should happen.
(For Gracie's PCS, it's just that she still is so unpolished and needs way better choreographys. But the potential is there. She's just been appearing on the scene last season, all she needs is time and experience. She very well may develop into a full-package skater.)

So overall, I think Gracie is lacking too much in the PCS department (for now!), and Kaetlyn doesn't have the same scoring potential as the other 3 have in the FS. So for now, I'd say Liza and Adelina are ahead here, with Adelina slightly beating Liza due to being a better overall skater, eventhough Liza is a better jumper.
 

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
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Tuk sill has poor ice coverage. Plus i don't think Tuk is that great of a performer right now either. Osmond seems to be the best in terms of performance and really skating with a lot of personality.
 

koatcue

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Aug 31, 2011
Country
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Tuk sill has poor ice coverage. Plus i don't think Tuk is that great of a performer right now either. Osmond seems to be the best in terms of performance and really skating with a lot of personality.

Why? I think she shows a lot of emotions while skating:confused2:
As I've already said, all of them have their pros and cons...I hope Liza develops this aspect of skating)
 

Li'Kitsu

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Dec 29, 2011
Jammers said:
Plus i don't think Tuk is that great of a performer right now either.

She's a very good performer to my eyes. I don't really get why people say she's lacking in that regard.
Dunno about Kaetlyn being better than the others. Liza is just as good as she is, I think. Adelina is a little stiff in competitions, but watching her Ex programms, the perfromance ability is easily there. Kaetlyn seems to have more fire (than Adelina, not seeing her better than Liza here again), but I'd argue that Adelina has better body lines and more elegance. Additionally, Kaetlyns programms are both very attack-y and spunky, not sure how versatile she is. I think both Liza and Adelina are.
 

Jammers

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I think Gracie's lack of emotion until the end was all about skating as clean as she could. It was all business. She will learn to skate with more emotion and still do her programs it just takes time.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
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Nov 20, 2011
^
Gracie has the basics, she has speed and huge jumps
indeed is just a matter of more experience of polishing, she is a future american star for sure
 

ImaginaryPogue

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Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Kaetlyn earned level four at SC for her steps. Level four steps doesn't mean too much as it's only one element, though.

I hope Zijun Li has a kickass Four Continents and gets herself into this grouping, because I'd argue she's right there.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
ImaginaryPogue said:
Kaetlyn earned level four at SC for her steps. Level four steps doesn't mean too much as it's only one element, though.

Yeah, that's true... but this four are arguably pretty close. And we just had a really close competition again (less than a point between frist and second). So I thought it might be worth the thought ;)

And +1 on Zijun.
 

koatcue

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Country
Russia
Kaetlyn earned level four at SC for her steps. Level four steps doesn't mean too much as it's only one element, though.

I hope Zijun Li has a kickass Four Continents and gets herself into this grouping, because I'd argue she's right there.

Adelina too, in Euro)
 

Jammers

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Ladies skating has just gotten a whole lot better just in the last few days with the youngsters rising up to challenge the veterans. I do not want to see the same skaters from Vancouver and even Turin being the only medal contenders. Bring on the new kids because skating only gets better with new talent.
 

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
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I checked the Skate Canada protocol, and Kaetlyn got LEVEL 3 for her footwork. Only two judges gave her GOE of more than +1. She received a total of 3.87 for the footwork sequence. Gracie got 3.8 for her L3 footwork at CoR, so they are pretty much a wash as far as footwork is concerned. Both ladies got L4 for all three spins. Kaetlyn's SC total for spins was 10.91 while Gracie's CoR total was 11.98.

At Europeans, Kostner's L4 footwork received 5.90, Sotnikova's L4 footwork got 5.40, and Tuktamysheva's L3 footwork got 4.09. Kostner's spin total (one L3, two L4) was 12.27; Sotnikova (all L4) 12.26; Tuktamysheva (one L3, two L4) 10.83.

Based on ISU results, Kaetlyn has lower technical content in jumps, spins and footwork than the European ladies. While Kaetlyn's spins and footwork are on a par with Gracie's, Gracie has a big edge in jumps.
 
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rvi5

On the Ice
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Apr 22, 2010
...Dunno about Kaetlyn being better than the others...
Kaetlyn has a certain sparkle which is hard to describe. I have heard multiple commentators mention it, although perhaps they can't quite put their finger on what it is. Tara Lepinski said during her NBC SCI broadcast: "...there's just something about her. She has a great presence and personality out there, and for a newcomer she looks very comfortable...". I don't hear these type of comments about the other skaters being discussed. Perhaps Ice Diva nailed it in her post #78 from the Sr Ladies LP thread in the Canadian Nationals forum.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?39739-Sr-Ladies-LP&p=702119&viewfull=1#post702119

Kaetlyn's "joie de vivre" may be what makes her sparkle, and enjoyable to watch. Patrick Chan complemented Kaetlyn in an interview after his Canadian Nationals skate by saying he envied her, and would like to get that joy back into his skating.

I hope Kaetlyn never loses that joy. With all the pressures, it appears to be a rare trait among many of todays competitive skaters.
 
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bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
As of now, IMO of these four:
Kaetlyn: Best presence and projection.
Gracie: Best jumper
Liza: Steeliest nerves
Adelina: Best all-around

How that translates into who will come out on top in a given competition, I have no idea.
 

Sasha'sSpins

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Apr 2, 2009
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as of now, imo of these four:
Kaetlyn: Best presence and projection.
Gracie: Best jumper
liza: Steeliest nerves
adelina: Best all-around

how that translates into who will come out on top in a given competition, i have no idea.

^^^
This!
 
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Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
She's a very good performer to my eyes. I don't really get why people say she's lacking in that regard.
Dunno about Kaetlyn being better than the others. Liza is just as good as she is, I think. Adelina is a little stiff in competitions, but watching her Ex programms, the perfromance ability is easily there. Kaetlyn seems to have more fire (than Adelina, not seeing her better than Liza here again), but I'd argue that Adelina has better body lines and more elegance. Additionally, Kaetlyns programms are both very attack-y and spunky, not sure how versatile she is. I think both Liza and Adelina are.
I think that Liza is a great performer. It's just that her choreography is crappy.
 
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