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Thread: I feel sorry for Mirai Nagasu

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I agree with you, and I don't think it's a rant. The economic benefits of farming out labor to another country don't go to workers, and they don't go to consumers. They go to executives and shareholders. This creates a disconnect between the top economic level and everyone else that is not healthy. Add to that the reluctance of anyone to raise taxes, and the main stream of money coming into the country stays concentrated in a very small group of hands.
    It gets better. Since our economy is not creating enough wealth to sustain itself, our government is forced to borrow money at a tremendous pace. Our government survives by selling Treasury bonds. Who buys most of them? That's right - the Chinese. Where do they get the money? Form all those factories we exported to them. If we had a President or a Congress with the guts to reverse some of the "free trade" nonsense, American factories would have to re-open, hire workers, and make products we used to import from the sweat shops. That is how we create the wealth we need to pull ourselves out of this recession.

    Mathman : Here is an experiment you could try. Find an economics professor at your university. Ask him if free trade has helped or hurt our economy over the last 20 years or so. He will look at you like you have 2 heads. He will tell you how wonderful and fabulous free trade is, because that's what he was taught. Free trade is the god before which economists are taught to bow down and prey.

  2. #197
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    If Mirai's family really doesn't have the money, she would get financial aid. Few people could afford college if they had to pay the current costs. Some of that high tuition money is used to give financial aid to those who show need.
    Financial aid packages these days are mostly in the form of student loans. It is not unusual for a student nowadays to finish his or her education $100,000 in debt.

    The good news -- more than half of student debtors just blow it off and never repay.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Financial aid packages these days are mostly in the form of student loans. It is not unusual for a student nowadays to finish his or her education $100,000 in debt.

    The good news -- more than half of student debtors just blow it off and never repay.
    It is not good to know that an entire generation is 50% deadbeats!

  4. #199
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    Well said and I applaud you both, but ultimately the exporting of jobs even "hurts" the rich, even though of course they dont feel it like we do. An employed population paying taxes and off the dole, buying goods made here floats everyone's boat in many ways. The lessons of the great depression (which was caused in part by concentration of wealth,) were understood and delt with. Under the Eisenhower administration, Oprah W. would have paid roughly 70 percent income tax on anything she would have earned over $2 mil (in 2009 dollars)....but few cared as few folk in 1954 earned $2,000,000 2009 dollars. Now, we have forgotton those lessons of 1934...
    Chris who would raise taxes on the folk who make over $250,000 a year so they would be more apt to dontate to figure skaters


    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I agree with you, and I don't think it's a rant. The economic benefits of farming out labor to another country don't go to workers, and they don't go to consumers. They go to executives and shareholders. This creates a disconnect between the top economic level and everyone else that is not healthy. Add to that the reluctance of anyone to raise taxes, and the main stream of money coming into the country stays concentrated in a very small group of hands.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Financial aid packages these days are mostly in the form of student loans. It is not unusual for a student nowadays to finish his or her education $100,000 in debt.

    The good news -- more than half of student debtors just blow it off and never repay.

    Actually, this isn't true--either part. In fact there are some schools that offer debt-free financial aid. Most offer a package that involves grants and loans.

    And you do have to pay back student loans. They can't even be discharged in bankruptcy.

  6. #201
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    It is not good to know that an entire generation is 50% deadbeats!
    We are 100% deadbeats. Starting in 1980 ("supply side economics") the national debt as a proportion of GDP rose every year except briefly for a couple of years at the end of the Clinton adminitration. Now we owe $16,000,000,000,000. We will never pay it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj
    Actually, this isn't true--either part.
    Well, not every student goes to graduate or professional school. But here are the 2010 statistics for medical school graduates.

    The median debt was $162,000 and 78% of all graduates owed more than $100,000.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...t1-blog480.jpg

    As for repayment, about 9% of student debts are in default after two years. A lot more are somewhat behind, but trying to work something out. About 50% of student debtors have secured a deferment whereby they don't have to pay now, but will have to pay more later, if they can.

    Student loans are unsecured. If you don't pay your car note, they will repossess your car. They can't repossess your education, so the student loan bill gets pushed to the bottom of the stack. Plus, if you don't have a job, you can't pay no matter how fiercely the government duns you.

    Edited to add: I was wrong in saying that most financial aid is in the form of loans. I just looked oit uo and the percentage is 39%, the rest in grants, scholarships, and work-study. For the most part the schools that do not include loans in their student aid packages are the very expensive elite private universities. (Princeton was the first to adopt such a policy in 2001.) These schools are out of reach for the average American student.
    Last edited by Mathman; 02-03-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    We are 100% deadbeats. Starting in 1980 ("supply side economics") the national debt as a proportion of GDP rose every year except briefly for a couple of years at the end of the Clinton adminitration. Now we owe $16,000,000,000,000. We will never pay it back.
    I assume you are including "we---individuals" in with the US government. It's the GOVERNMENT which has put the nation in debt.

    I as an individual am not a deadbeat and have never been a deadbeat. I pay my bills when they are due. I've saved throughout my working life even at times when that was tough to do.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    We are 100% deadbeats. Starting in 1980 ("supply side economics") the national debt as a proportion of GDP rose every year except briefly for a couple of years at the end of the Clinton adminitration. Now we owe $16,000,000,000,000. We will never pay it back.



    Student loans are unsecured. If you don't pay your car note, they will repossess your car. They can't repossess your education, so the student loan bill gets pushed to the bottom of the stack. Plus, if you don't have a job, you can't pay no matter how fiercely the government duns you.
    .
    Whether or not loans are secured matters more for priority in bankruptcy than for being able to repossess property. Since student loans are non-dischargeable, it doesn't really matter if the are unsecured or not. But of course if someone doesn't have a job, they can't pay. But if they ever do get a job--which most people do--the government can come after them.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    It is not good to know that an entire generation is 50% deadbeats!
    Many of these "deadbeats" are students who did as they were told by both their parents and the government. Study hard, go to school. Higher education is the path towards social and economic betterment. But of course these deadbeats had the temerity to graduate in the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. You can't pay back those debts unless you get a job. And even if you can get a job, many of the jobs available don't pay enough for someone to pay back $100,000 in debt that's accruing interest.

    Of course, things are improving (or so we're told). Perhaps it's not as bad as it was in 2008-9, but it's still a rocky road ahead. For example, last week, I interviewed for an unpaid internship position. My interviewer bluntly told me that I was a strong applicant, but he also had 400 applicants vying for the single position and that they "had to make some hard choices." And this was for an unpaid internship...

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Financial aid packages these days are mostly in the form of student loans. It is not unusual for a student nowadays to finish his or her education $100,000 in debt.

    The good news -- more than half of student debtors just blow it off and never repay.
    A student who doesn't repay his federal student loan can have his salary garnished and any tax refund due withheld. In addition, your credit score will be impacted which might result in your not being able to get loans for cars, homes, etc. In addition, many of the best companies will not hire someone who has defaulted on their loan. Except under the most unusual circumstances federal student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
    If you reach retirement age and start to withdraw social security benefits, that may be impacted too. Private student loans are not even dischargeable with death often. Most require a cosigner who becomes responsible for repaying the loan.
    Last edited by Icey; 02-03-2013 at 08:11 PM.

  11. #206
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    I felt more sorry for her in 2011 when she was truly robbed of making the World team behind an inferior skater the USFSA always loved and held up (Flatt) who had a comparable performance with similar mistakes, and in 2010 when she was robbed of a 2nd National title for this same mediocre and always held up in the U.S skater. I felt sorry for her at the 2010 Olympics where she gave performances that would have probably won every other Olympics in history, but came only 4th due to the insane level of skating at that event. I felt sorry for her at the 2010 Worlds where she blew a chance to win the World title (something she will never have again) and missed a medal by the tiniest margin. This year how could I feel that sorry for her though when she was legitimately outskated by every single skater who finished in front of her, and arguably a couple who didnt. Given the level of skating of the ladies free that night, and the significant mistakes she herself made, I find it laughable some are suggesting she deserved to finish 3rd or 4th, some even saying 2nd, lol! It would have been purely criminal if she had finished ahead of someone like Christina Gao, who was already robbed enough to finish 5th, let alone being given the slap in the face of finishing even lower and behind a faulty Nagasu had Nagasu been placed any higher than 6th. Apart from Wagner, Nagasu, and Zawadzki everyone in the top 8 or 9 were lights out. Yes I know she worked hard and recommited herself this year, and good for her for that, but I am sure the other girls worked hard too, and the ones who beat her outskated her that night.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As for repayment, about 9% of student debts are in default after two years. A lot more are somewhat behind, but trying to work something out. About 50% of student debtors have secured a deferment whereby they don't have to pay now, but will have to pay more later, if they can.
    Agree with most of your post, but you didn't mention student debt cannot be discharged through bankruptcy, so it will remain forever until repaid, unless the Democrats find some way in the future to forgive the debts to buy new voters.

  13. #208
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    ^ I think there is a pretty good chance that that will happen at some point. After all, the government bailed out the giant investment banks to the tune of billions of dollars when they made loans to people who lacked the means to repay them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I felt more sorry for her in 2011 when she was truly robbed of making the World team behind an inferior skater the USFSA always loved and held up (Flatt) who had a comparable performance with similar mistakes, and in 2010 when she was robbed of a 2nd National title for this same mediocre and always held up in the U.S skater. I felt sorry for her at the 2010 Olympics where she gave performances that would have probably won every other Olympics in history, but came only 4th due to the insane level of skating at that event. I felt sorry for her at the 2010 Worlds where she blew a chance to win the World title (something she will never have again) and missed a medal by the tiniest margin. This year how could I feel that sorry for her though when she was legitimately outskated by every single skater who finished in front of her, and arguably a couple who didnt. Given the level of skating of the ladies free that night, and the significant mistakes she herself made, I find it laughable some are suggesting she deserved to finish 3rd or 4th, some even saying 2nd, lol! It would have been purely criminal if she had finished ahead of someone like Christina Gao, who was already robbed enough to finish 5th, let alone being given the slap in the face of finishing even lower and behind a faulty Nagasu had Nagasu been placed any higher than 6th. Apart from Wagner, Nagasu, and Zawadzki everyone in the top 8 or 9 were lights out. Yes I know she worked hard and recommited herself this year, and good for her for that, but I am sure the other girls worked hard too, and the ones who beat her outskated her that night.
    Nice summary of Nagasu's career. She certainly has received few gifts from USFSA judges. The reason why some were suggesting Nagasu should have placed higher at Omaha is they were comparing her performance with the overscored meltdown of Wagner, rather than the clean skates of Goa, Siraj, etc. It would have been more acceptable to many if USFSA didn't have the tradition/rule of naming the top two to the world team. Then Wagner could have been marked maybe fourth, yet named to the world team based on her overall performances over the last 12 months.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    Agree with most of your post, but you didn't mention student debt cannot be discharged through bankruptcy, so it will remain forever until repaid, unless the Democrats find some way in the future to forgive the debts to buy new voters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ I think there is a pretty good chance that that will happen at some point. After all, the government bailed out the giant investment banks to the tune of billions of dollars when they made loans to people who lacked the means to repay them.
    ^^^Interesting reads-but I thought this thread was about Mirai.

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