Gold is skating's bright new star

Osmond wasn't in front of an enthusiastic crowd at Nebelhorn and her scores are comparable.

chuckm said:

Right. And Kaetlyn's competition was on HOME ICE before an enthusiastic Canadian audience, a boon for PCS scores.

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God, we get it, Chuck. We really do.

babyalligator said:

Finally got around to seeing Gold's FS at nationals. She definitely looks promising. I like her jumps--very crisp.
It's really nice to see her and Osmond emerge from the US and Canada. It's been a while since we've had skaters with solid potential from North America.

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Well we had just a few years ago Sasha Cohen, Rachel Flatt, Mirai Nagasu in 2010 and Joannie Rochette.

Sasha retired almost 7 years ago now and Mirai hasn't panned out as a great skater at least not yet. As for Flatt well she was consistent but never World champion material. And Canada usually has to wait about a decade for a world caliber skater but it took less then three years.

kwanatic said:

I agree too. Ashley tanked the FS and won based solely on the strength of her overall skating for the past 12 months combined with the USFSA's desperation for some stability in their ladies' program. I say Ashley was made the 2-time champion to keep up appearances on the international stage and hopefully help boost her going to worlds. That FS was not worth 121 points...

Gracie tanked the SP. Her FS was a great program in terms of jumps. If you strip out the jumps, there's nothing about that program that would excite, entertain me or even keep my attention. She skates like a fresh off the JGP skater and that is going to have to change quickly if she wants to compete among the best. Gracie may be able to get over with her technical mark but she'll be buried in the PCS. She was all jumps...and that wasn't worth 132 points IMO. She won the FS but that score was ridiculous given the level of the program she put out.

I suppose I agree with the placements and I do think Ashley and Gracie are probably the best combination to attempt to earn that 3rd spot, but the judging was disgraceful at this year's competition...

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Well said, this summed up the situation nicely and frankly.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Based on talent and consistency, Gold is the real deal. She is one of the only US skaters capable of 3F-3T and 3Z-3T, and she has already cemented a win on the GP circuit this year.

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uh...nope, Gracie did not win a GP this year, it was 8th and 2nd at SCI and COR respectively.

Mathman said:

The thing about Gracie is that her jumps get so much air under them that she completes the revolutions high above the ice, then has the leisure to look down and pick her landing spot. I have never seen anything like it.

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You are right, the quality of her jumps is absolutely breathtaking. Not many women in the past could do that, there were some, but very rarely. In this sense, she is a very gifted jumper. Everything else however still needs a lot of improvement in order to be top 10 worthy at Worlds.

chuckm said:

Right. And Kaetlyn's competition was on HOME ICE before an enthusiastic Canadian audience, a boon for PCS scores.

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Too bad, Chuck, because it will be impossible to move this year's Worlds to London, England instead. So she is going to have the home ice, audience and boon for PCS as you stated. So live with it, who says life is fair? It would be even nicer if she end up bumping an American off the podium or missing the 3 spots next year as a result, just so that we can see your reaction afterwards.

Skater Boy said:

Well we had just a few years ago Sasha Cohen, Rachel Flatt, Mirai Nagasu in 2010 and Joannie Rochette.

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Sasha was out of the game a while ago, and like Joannie, was never a completely dominant skater in the sense that Kwan, Slutskaya, or Kim were and are.
It was pretty clear from the get go (to me at least), that skating was not going to be Rachel's future. And while I do love Mirai and her brightness, the jumps just weren't there.

I'm pretty reserved about Gold and Osmond too. They both have potential, but they--especially Osmond--both have aspects of their skating that worry me when thinking about their future prospects. It's the same worrying that kept bothering me when I watched Asada and her jump technique when she was younger. I sincerely hope that these two succeed--especially since they'll be at the ideal age when the next Olympic Games in PyeongChang comes around (not to mention, rivalries are fun! )

babyalligator said:

Sasha was out of the game a while ago, and like Joannie, was never a completely dominant skater in the sense that Kwan, Slutskaya, or Kim were and are.
It was pretty clear from the get go (to me at least), that skating was not going to be Rachel's future. And while I do love Mirai and her brightness, the jumps just weren't there.

I'm pretty reserved about Gold and Osmond too. They both have potential, but they--especially Osmond--both have aspects of their skating that worry me when thinking about their future prospects. It's the same worrying that kept bothering me when I watched Asada and her jump technique when she was younger. I sincerely hope that these two succeed--especially since they'll be at the ideal age when the next Olympic Games in PyeongChang comes around (not to mention, rivalries are fun! )

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In ladies skating, most of the legendary women who dominated this sport for a significant period of time tend to be the one who is (was) known for their presence, presentation and aka. artistry. Looking at Kwan and Kim, you'll notice what they have in common is their presence while their style and technical strengths may differ. Neither of them are or were known as the best jumpers of their respective time. Another key ingredient in ladies skating is consistency, which both Kim and Kwan had, which doesn't mean they have to win every competition they enter but rather, a consistency that allows them to perform up to a respectable level even when they had off days. Kostner was never considered a dominant skater because while she has the presence, she failed miserably when it comes to consistency.

By contrast, ladies who were known as great jumpers seldom dominate this sport. Thinking about the like of Midori Ito, Surya Bonaly, even Mao Asada - jumpers tend to not do as well in the long-term vs. their more artistic oriented counterparts. It's only recently that Asada has started to reinvent herself but certainly prior to the 2010 Olympics, she has been always about her big arsenals more than her presence and the results were disappointing for her (off the podium at 2009 Worlds, failed to win the Olympics in 2010).

The difference between Osmond and Gold seem to be setting up like this traditional artistry vs. jumps. Osmond is a good jumper, like Kim and Kwan but it's not her biggest selling point. Gold has monstrous jumps when clean, more like Midori Ito, but still lacking passion and presence in her skating. So it begs to ask, how will this play out? Let's just say ice is slippery, a lady who is reliant on big jumps to succeed will bear a higher risk because it is harder to be consistent on jumps than it is on performance. Plus, a lady's ability to jump does fluctuate more over time as we have seen with Mao Asada, not just a puberty problem. Simply put, an artistic skater will have an easier road towards dominating her sport than a jumper, this much is true in the history of figure skating.

This is where we see differently.
I see having the jumps as the base upon which great skaters are built. To reach the next level of "greatness," they must then also have presence and artistry.

Gold's problem is definitely presentation and natural musicality, but at the base, should she not falter, she has the jumps. Now, she may never achieve the added presence and artistry needed to be a star.

Osmond's problem to me (not so much for you, I guess) are her jumps. I feel that they are going to give her some trouble in the future, and without them, she will not be able to claim greatness either.

Needless to say, I wish them well, but my hopes for them both are on the conservative side.

I think Osmond's jumps have actually improved, particularly her double axel, 3F and 3T-3T. Her lutz is her only weakness but otherwise she gets great flow and does transitions into them.

I will say though that Gracie's jumps are absolutely beautiful. She has such a polished exit, gets huge height on her lutz, and when she tacks on 3T she usually gets easily enough rotation without the "wind-up" that you see many skaters do. Looks effortless, really when she's on. I would hope in the future she would push for even harder elements as her technique is good and she gets great spring.

What we need, is a skater into which we can squish Gold's and Osmond's best qualities.

Then again, I said that about Kim and Asada too a long time ago.....now that would have created a super skater that would have sprayed rainbows and stars everywhere she went because of her awesomeness.

Irina Slutskaya was always a jumper rather than an artistic skater, and her chief rival was artistic skater Kwan. Slutskaya was famous for her 3/3s which she acquired early in her career, and which Kwan couldn't quite match. Slutskaya had her share of victories, including two World Championships (2002 and 2005) in which she defeated Kwan. In 2002, Slutskaya won silver at the 2002 Olympics, with Kwan winning bronze. Irina also defeated Kwan in 3 GPFs, 2001, 2002 and 2003.

Another example of a jumper beating an artistic skater is Ando beating Kim at 2011 Worlds. Ando was one of the least musical skaters I have ever seen, but it didn't stop her from winning two World Championships, a 4CC Championship, a JW Championship, and 5 GP gold medals.

I would consider Asada as an artistic skater who at one time was one of the great jumpers. OTOH Czisny is definitely an artistic skater who has been unable to master jumps. Cohen was an artistic skater who could not overcome her inconsistent jump technique.

Kostner is today more of an artistic skater who started out as a jumper. She no longer has the 3/3 which once propelled her to European Championships and numerous World medals, but she has 13 seasons of competitions under her belt and has earned the respect of the ISU judges for her speed and elegance.

Arakawa was primarily an artistic skater who geared up her technical repertoire to win her first World Championship at 22 and Olympic gold at 24. But much of her early career wasn't particularly successful. She won only one gold GP medal and never won GPF. She didn't dominate her sport, not even after winning Worlds in 2004; she was 9th at 2005 Worlds.

I don't see that Osmond at this point is anywhere near as artistic as Kwan or Kim or Asada or Cohen or Kostner or Arakawa. She is competing against a field of ladies who have considerable jumping skills, and some of them are quite artistic as well. If Kaetlyn wants to dominate, she's going to have to up her technical skills and at the same time deliver clean FS programs on a consistent basis.

I think it's a tall order to ask Kaetlyn to be on the same artistic level as the ones you mentioned. I think that will come with time. For now, she's a vivacious skater with good jumps and interpretation, but needs refinement. We all know her medaling at Worlds would be the surprise of the competition, but we also can't say we didn't see it coming if it happened.

I don't see either Gold or Osmond winning a World medal, not with Kostner, Kim, Asada and Wagner in the mix. And both Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva are now Senior ISU Championship medalwinners, which will boost their cred in the eyes of the judges. Tuktamysheva skated a flawless 7-triple FS at Europeans.

I think when Gracie gets some maturity she will pass up Wagner pretty quickly unless Ashley starts doing 3-3's. The first time Gracie beats Ashley might be when she takes over as top lady. Ashley might have a hard time beating after that. Gracie does not have to do a Kwan transformation to get to the top she just needs more polish and expression.

Completely agree. Her jumps are are amazing. No one else is close to her in that department. I really feel she is in the running for an Olympic medal. Ashley Wagner will not be in the picture next year unless she can have 2 triple triples.

Jammers said:

I think when Gracie gets some maturity she will pass up Wagner pretty quickly unless Ashley starts doing 3-3's. The first time Gracie beats Ashley might be when she takes over as top lady. Ashley might have a hard time beating after that. Gracie does not have to do a Kwan transformation to get to the top she just needs more polish and expression.

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I thought Gold was amazing in the Nationals FS, but I'm not jumping on a Gold Olympic bandwagon just yet. She needs a top choreographer, not the one she's had this season, and she needs to be able to jump and show expression at the same time. On the latter point, I'm not sure she will be ready for prime time a year from now, she doesn't have enough time. Once the post Olympic retirements kick in, she may be ready to take her place among the top ladies.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

I think Osmond's jumps have actually improved, particularly her double axel, 3F and 3T-3T. Her lutz is her only weakness but otherwise she gets great flow and does transitions into them.

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Osmond has an "e" on the Lutz and isn't including the 3Lo at this point.

Gold is getting an "e" on the majority of her flips (although it's improved throughout the season)