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Thread: Analyzing transitions of Kostner's LP

  1. #1
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    Analyzing transitions of Kostner's LP

    FIRST OF ALL: I am so sorry for my poor english. I am from Brazil, so english is not my native speaking language. Please, forgive me for that.

    *** I have posted the analysis in Euro 2013 Ladies LP thread. But, I thought that here would be a more proper place to post***

    After hearing everybody commenting about the "lack" of transitions of Caro's LP, I decided to make an analysis of the transitions of her LP. And I found that the program is not "transition-less", as some people are saying.

    The program consists of 13 elements. I am gonna select every single element and see the transitions thing. So, let's begin.

    Carolina begins her program with a typical opening choreography. This choreography can also be "considered" a transition, since there is edge work.

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...auH9afAg#t=21s[/url]

    After the "opening", she prepares for the Lutz. Yes, the Lutz is telegraphed. The set up is very long, but, long straight line entrances for her flip and lutz is something that she has been doing since the beggining of her career. It is the same of complaining that she does not have a Biellmann Spin. It really does not bother me(the telegraphed flip and lutz), since the quality of the jumps is great(correct edges, no pre rotation, great height, distance, speed in and out of the jump, tight air position). Also, do not forget that the Last time Carolina attempted a 3Lz in big competition was at Vancouver Lp(she fell there in the Lutz). 3 years i an row with no Lutz.

    Ok, she landed her Lutz... But, AFTER the landing of the Lutz she actually made some nice transitions (including some turns and a very short spread eagle). Also, don't forget she also makes very nice arm movements that match the timing of the song.

    Watch here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...auH9afAg#t=49s[/url]

    After that, she strokes a little to gain more speed(for the 2A), and, after that, she makes some more turns(similar to her SP's 3Lo entrance). After that, she skates a in a straight line and performs her 2 Axel.

    Watch here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...auH9afAg#t=56s[/url]

    Now, it is the flip combo...

    After landing the 2A, Carolina makes some subtle steps(she also change edges few times), with arm movements, and strokes for her Flip combo.

    See here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...auH9afAg#t=68s[/url]

    Yes, the flip is telegraphed. But, as I have said earlier, is something that she has always done.

    Now(with the Flip combo landed), she is gonna to perform some spins...

    But, after landing the 3F+2T, Carolina made some more turns(with change of edge also) and goes right away to the FCCoSp... The time after the 3F combo and the Flying Entrance of her first spin is very small and she still makes some turns(that can be considered transitions). Watch here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...auH9afAg#t=82s[/url]

    With the FCCoSp finished, Carolina goes to her Flying Camel...

    Please, note that there are transtions after the FCCoSp and before the Flying Camel. She does not go to the Flying Camel right away skating in a straight line(there are some steps and arm movements, that match the song well)

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...uH9afAg#t=103s[/url]

    With the Flying Camel performed, Carolina pauses. This pause is very rich and has a lot of choreography and can also be considered a transition. Watch here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...uH9afAg#t=119s[/url]

    After that, she is going to her loop, lands it and make more arm movements and steps( or transitions) before stroking for her 3T+2T...

    See here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...uH9afAg#t=148s[/url]

    With the 3T+2T landed, Carolina makes a few arm movements and changes the direction and edges of the blades. The "direction and edges changes" can also be considered a "linking" element(or transitions). Please, note that it is not a straight line. See here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...uH9afAg#t=166s[/url]


    Then, she performs her Salchow combo... With the Salchow combo landed, she goes to a CCoSp. After landing the combo and before going to the Spin, Carolina makes some steps with arm movements, that can be considered as transition).

    Watch here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...uH9afAg#t=178s[/url]


    She finished her spin and goes right to the footwork sequence. Her footwork is very long and difficult.

    When she finished her footwork, she strokes a little to gain speed for her choreo sequence(spiral...). And, before the classic arabesque spiral she makes more transitions, with very nice and polished arm and leg moviments. The choreo sequences starts with the Spiral and the step sequences ends when she began to stroke. So, what is betweeen the end of the steps and before the spiral can be considered transtions.

    Watch here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...uH9afAg#t=242s[/url]

    Now, she is going to perform her Choreo Sequence, that consists of 3 elements. Carolina makes a spiral, some steps with arm movements and a "kind" o jump with the legs "crossed"(don't know if I am using the right word).

    Whe she lands the jump, the Choreo Sequence is over. After the "little jump", she makes some more arm movements and steps(that can, also, be considered trnasitions) and goes to the Last Salchow.

    See here:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...uH9afAg#t=261s[/url]


    As you can see, most of the elements have transitions going in and out(except flip and lutz that have no transitions performed before). I really think that the transitions are good, well match the song.

    Just because her transitions are very smooth, fluid and subtle, it does not mean that her transitions are weak and poor.

    I hope you enjoy.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for your analysis. I agree that she does transitions, but the difficulty and quantity does not match someone like Kaetlyn. In addition, as you pointed out, the lutz and flip are telegraphed. Those jumps are high quality and should receive +GOE but any attempt at choreography completely stops when she sets up for them, and for me it seems a bit awkward. Her SS and PE marks should be very high, but her TR and CH should be a bit lower based on these observations.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Thanks for your analysis. I agree that she does transitions, but the difficulty and quantity does not match someone like Kaetlyn. In addition, as you pointed out, the lutz and flip are telegraphed. Those jumps are high quality and should receive +GOE but any attempt at choreography completely stops when she sets up for them, and for me it seems a bit awkward. Her SS and PE marks should be very high, but her TR and CH should be a bit lower based on these observations.
    Longtime lurker, first time poster.

    Kaetlyn Osmond does a lot of transitiions, and choreography. This doesn't neccessarily mean that it is done well. While I think that it takes a lot of blade control to spin and jump, her transitions are not yet smooth. I think this will come in time, she is such a beautiful skater. Carolina K's program seems simple, but if you look at the blade quality and edging she produces it is really difficult. Which is why I suppose she is the reigning World Champion.

    I think to say that this program has no transitions is to dismiss it without a good look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Thanks for your analysis. I agree that she does transitions, but the difficulty and quantity does not match someone like Kaetlyn. In addition, as you pointed out, the lutz and flip are telegraphed. Those jumps are high quality and should receive +GOE but any attempt at choreography completely stops when she sets up for them, and for me it seems a bit awkward. Her SS and PE marks should be very high, but her TR and CH should be a bit lower based on these observations.
    I agree with you Kaetlyn Osmond, have much more transition than Kostner.
    Osmond every move and transition is difficult and match the timing of the music. And Osmond doesn't telegraph her jump, she just go out and fly across the ice.
    Kostner is nothing compared to Osmond.

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    I'm sorry, but transitions are barily visible anywhere in this program before or after any of the jumps. She has always telegraphed (one of the most blantant telegraphers at present) and I think she should be scored accordingly. Sure she has nice edges but that is skating skills not transitions.

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    I would like to point out that the "transitions" call in the pcs doesn't refer only to transitions going into a jump (that are also rewarded in the same jump's goe), but it has to deal also with skating and body movements between all the technical elements and she does a great job with it, I don't think it would be possible for her to make the program any fuller, especially in the second half when the crescendo of the music asks her speed and energy. Transitions have always been the weakest pcs point for Kostner, and I am so surprised everytime she gets a better score than in ss in which she is a lot more brilliant

  7. #7
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    First of all, thank you, mateusp1, for putting together such a detailed and thoughtful analysis.

    Figureskate is correct that transitions aren't just what comes before a jump (if it's very close to the jump, wouldn't it be reflected in GOE, actually?) but OTOH, skating with speed and energy to the crescendo of the music isn't something that should affect the TR mark - it's more relevant for IN or P&E.

    I must say that I do have issues with the construction of Kostner's LP. I'm a fan and have been since she debuted, and I thought her programs last season were magnificent. But when I first saw Bolero, I did think it was quite empty in terms of linking movements - there's just not that much going on, and I suspect if it were a lower ranked skater, there would be considerably more criticism about how empty it is. Maybe it's subtlety, but there is such a thing as too subtle - and she also does some standing around and posing that would be more in place in an Amodio program. I expect more of Carolina because I know she is capable of it.

    OTOH...
    Quote Originally Posted by coolboogie22 View Post
    Kostner is nothing compared to Osmond.

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    Of course Osmond has got to get mentioned and compared against everybody, even in threads that are about something/somebody completely different. *sighs*

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    [QUOTE=Buttercup;705589]
    Figureskate is correct that transitions aren't just what comes before a jump (if it's very close to the jump, wouldn't it be reflected in GOE, actually?) but OTOH, skating with speed and energy to the crescendo of the music isn't something that should affect the TR mark - it's more relevant for IN or P&E.
    [QUOTE]

    Of course speed has nothing to do with transitions (directly) but a program fuller of transitions is more demanding in terms of energy

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