2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP | Page 20 | Golden Skate

2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yes, he did. Thank goodness for that. He's become a much better skater, IMO. And funnily enough, hasn't been injured since...while getting injured before was an annual event...




If the USFSA was smart, they'd market the hell out of these guys in a couple of years. How good does it look for the sport to have these two young enormous talents who are so level-headed and well-grounded? There's nothing diva-ish or snarky about them, heck, they have a great rivalry on ice and are good friends off it. It's a PR goldmine.

Thanks...glad Josh moved on. Yes they really need to get Jason, Josh and Alexander out there on the gp senior circuit.
 

GypsyFe

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 30, 2012
After watching Jeremy...I loved his skating a few years ago - seems like he has become over stylized - trying too hard to live up to his theatrical reputation - and in the process his skating has lost its oopmh - no dynamics - none of the "grab the gold ring"... seems to be working too hard on emotion. Sad!
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Whoa. Very interesting. Does that just hold true for US skaters or does it hold for other skaters/national championships/world events as well?

Well, I haven't done any extensive analysis. But this is one of the common criticisms of the IJS.

I think psychologically, the tendency is to score the first component (SS) as thoughtfully as possible, then to use that as a gauge for all the rest. Experiments have been conducted in which some other component is listed first, like P&E, and then that one, rather than SS, becomes dominant.

Interestingly, TR is almost always the lowest of the five for all skaters. I think this is because it is the easiest to quantify. For components that are most subjective, like INT, I think the judges tend to give the skaters the benefit of the doubt more.

After watching Jeremy...I loved his skating a few years ago - seems like he has become over stylized - trying too hard to live up to his theatrical reputation - and in the process his skating has lost its oopmh - no dynamics - none of the "grab the gold ring"... seems to be working too hard on emotion. Sad!

Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka :love: ), I think Jeremy needs tougher coaches. Someone has to tell him that this is an athletic contest. You can express yourself by soulful moping about on your own time. :yes:
 

ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
Whoa. Very interesting. Does that just hold true for US skaters or does it hold for other skaters/national championships/world events as well?

Statistically, having the 5 components is almost always meaningless, because they don't vary much one from the other at all, like Mathman said. You might as well just have one score given the way the scores are used now. I'm not advocating that -- I'd rather judges actually score the components separately, but they don't.
 

loveskating

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
After watching Jeremy...I loved his skating a few years ago - seems like he has become over stylized - trying too hard to live up to his theatrical reputation - and in the process his skating has lost its oopmh - no dynamics - none of the "grab the gold ring"... seems to be working too hard on emotion. Sad!

Agreed. He is not Tom Dickson you know.
 

Eislauf

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka :love: ), I think Jeremy needs tougher coaches. Someone has to tell him that this is an athletic contest. You can express yourself by soulful moping about on your own time. :yes:

I hear you. I used to love Jeremy's skating but his torturous emoting on ice seemed over-the-top, tiresome to watch and unbelievably self-indulgent. I felt like telling him to get over himself and, as you said, Mathman, save the moping for his private life. I hope someone on his team can help him do this.
 
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yelyoh

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes sad to say Jeremy's programs have nearly become self parody. I was thinking that as I was watching him and saying Jeremy think more about the fact that this is an athletic competition and not an acting audition.
 

Flutz Capacitor

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
I really liked his Les Mis program, but perhaps the song doesn't lend itself to fast powerful skating tho. Jeremy's Exogenesis program from last season is one of my favorite programs of all time. I wish he could have skated that one well at Worlds, but I'll always remember his performance at 2012 Nationals. I loved that program more than anything Chan or Takahashi have ever done. Jeremy is an extraordinary artist.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Wow Jeremy looked so much smaller back then even though he was about 22. He looked faster too and his jumps were much better. He no doubt had the talent to accomplish a lot more internationally then he has. Now at almost 28 i can't see him being this good ever again.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
The difficulty in using "Bring Him Home" (or any piece from Les Miserables), personally, is that the power of the musical comes from the human voice. A poorly sung Les Miserables is a torturous experience (unless I'm singing it, in which case it's torturous for other people). So it rather startles me just how moved I am by this skate. Much like Chan's "Aranjuez" it's such a gorgeous marriage blade and music. Every moment is held for the perfect length of time. It's a program of patience, almost, and that makes it rare. I didn't care for "Exogenesis" - I thought the Kerrs skated to it much better the season earlier and I don't like the music much in the first place. Indeed, I'd argue that Jeremy's more of a great short program skater (to be fair, though, artistically cohesive shorts are far more common), but "Bring Him Home" is so far and away my favourite singles program this year. Beautiful.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Well, I haven't done any extensive analysis. But this is one of the common criticisms of the IJS.

I think psychologically, the tendency is to score the first component (SS) as thoughtfully as possible, then to use that as a gauge for all the rest. Experiments have been conducted in which some other component is listed first, like P&E, and then that one, rather than SS, becomes dominant.

Interestingly, TR is almost always the lowest of the five for all skaters. I think this is because it is the easiest to quantify. For components that are most subjective, like INT, I think the judges tend to give the skaters the benefit of the doubt more.



Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka :love: ), I think Jeremy needs tougher coaches. Someone has to tell him that this is an athletic contest. You can express yourself by soulful moping about on your own time. :yes:

I love it; that is what I would call Brian Boitano when he became or tried to become artistic. It wasn't innate and there was always that spread eagle and that dramatic stare. Sometimes you just wanted him to fall oops my inner voice lol
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
This is the Jeremy we use to know and wow I didn't realized how small he was in 2008/2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R01yT7n8_qQ

This is still his best performance ever. And one of THE best performances ever. "Transitions" have never been more effectively used than here, except for maybe some of Matt Savoie's programs.

His SP and LP were also both completely brilliant in in the 2007/2008 season, although he wasn't ever able to deliver all the technical content that season. Jeremy's 3Loop was always gorgeous back then, though. What happened to it?
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
You know if judges handed out PCS based on the actual criteria and not how many jumps skaters landed, the gap between Abbott and Aaron would have been so huge, Abbott would have crushed him even with multiple errors on the jumps. Sadly the reality of judging is very different.

I remember that last time I watched Aaron (JGPF two seasons ago I think?), he had a performance worthy of 1.75 IN. He just ignored the music. This season more effort has been put into his choreography and he has improved his presentation slightly but it's still terrible.

It really irks me to see so many people say that Max Aaron was the best skater in the SP & FS overall. He wasn't. He landed the most difficult jumps, yes, but he was far, far from being the best skater overall.

P.S. I owe an apology to Max Aaron, I think he's actually tweezed for Nationals. ;P

[Alexander Johnson's] program is also further proof of how brilliant Tom Dickson is.

This. I really wish more skaters used Dickson instead of Lori Zzzichol.

Jason is 18 and just getting a triple axel? Amazing. Just getting a quad, maybe ok, but not a 3a.

What is amazing about it? The vast majority of competitive skaters are never able to achieve landing that jump consistently.

Who is Alexander?? He is pretty amazing! I saw that he is 23, is he just popping into seniors this year? He is going to go far he is strong technically and artistically, he has such great flow over the ice.

He's been competing both at international and national level for ages now. This was his 4th Senior Nationals. He was also a Junior bronze medallist. And he has a gold and a bronze JGP medal and made the JGPF once.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00010277.htm

Whoa. Very interesting. Does that just hold true for US skaters or does it hold for other skaters/national championships/world events as well?

It holds true for PCS judging in general. With very very few exceptions, judges never differentiate their PCS marks even though the skaters they are judging usually display very different levels of the PCS abilities.

I think psychologically, the tendency is to score the first component (SS) as thoughtfully as possible, then to use that as a gauge for all the rest.

Yes, something like that. Also, I think that SS is the thing judges notice and care about the most. It was the same during 6.0 days. Presentation mark was basically a skating skills mark even though skating skills were supposed to be evaluated in the technical mark.

ISU really should bring in split judging panels. I believe it's not possible to fully focus on both the elements and the PCS.
 
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icebeauty

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Thanks for the info on Jeremy. It helps me understand what happened. As Jeremy started to skate, I felt such a strong sense of how far above almost all the other Americans he is in the quality of his movements and in his understanding of what skating is. There's a reason he's been near the top for so long and even earned international medals, and a reason he's so compelling to watch, even though he's so often a broken heart waiting to happen. You're right; if only we could graft Max's jumps and temperament onto Jeremy's skating skills....

i'm glad my post helped put the Jeremy's situation in perspective. at this point, i just want Jeremy to get healthy, strong, and ready so if he is needed at worlds, he can be competitive...regardless, i hope he sticks around for next year. He deserves it. As we all know, he developed more slowly than his peers (Johnny and Evan), and came into the spotlight much later. But as a result, he brings a maturity and wisdom to his skating that makes him that much more enjoyable to watch. Who knows, maybe a healthy and prepared Jeremy will make an appearance next season. Even if the US only gets to send 2 men to Sochi, I just want to see Jeremy end his career on a high note, with one last truly magical skate for his coaches, the fans, and more importantly himself...if anything, to remind everyone (especially USFS) how special the sport of figure skating is and how incredible it has been to watch Jeremy skate and represent Team USA
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I think it's the tight costume that makes Jeremy look so small. The billowy shirts make him look broader, but put him in a catsuit and I'm sure he'd still look very thin and "tiny" on the ice (although he is fairly tall, or at least appears so, and was even then).
 

icebeauty

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
OMG...finally had time to sit and watch Alex Johnson's FS...OMG...that was BEAUTIFUL, i think it was best skate of Sunday afternoon. the fluidity, speed, control, elegance, just LOVED IT
(seriously, NBC you couldn't make time to replay it on the broadcast?!?!?)

also, I was happy to see Adam enjoy skating for the first time in a while, he was really having fun...i don't know how far he'll get next season, but he definitely got stronger as the season progressed this year and he finally landed THREE 3A's in a competition (albeit the 3rd one didn't have the best landing...) which has to be a sigh of relief for everyone
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
So I'm curious, what do Phil Hersh and Johnny Weir think about the outcome of the men's results? I know Johnny likes Max's eyebrows, but that's about all I know.
 
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