2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP

[SkateNater]

I've been looking for Aaron's FS several times with high hope to see brilliant skating, but really disappointed. What kind of choreography was that, especially after both 4Ss. It looked like he totally forgot what he needed to do and just walk around after the first, and looked like cleaning/rubbing his nose after the second. I would guess that he would not get 7s for PCS in international competition. Good jumps, yes, but that's about it.

Really like Alexander Johnson, first time watching his skating and an instant fan.

Sad for Jeremy but I too guess he has used up his rep quota.

Never a fan of Russ Miner but he did skate with aboundance, well deserved silver if not gold. All in all good competition.

It's very important that people understand how PCS is judged. I see "he/she would not get # internationally" too much. There are ISU videos on YouTube and I implore anyone who wants to toss around numbers to watch them and understand that just because your skating skills suck doesn't mean you're going to get the same low scores on every other PCS score. PCS is comprised of something like 5 scores. Only One of them is Choreography and only One of them is Skating Skills.

Max Aaron's program is tactically laid out. He wastes a lot of time in the first half and then does a clinic of triple jumps in the second half. All of those jumps get Base * 10% value.

Obviously, his coaches and choreographer knows he will not pulling huge PCS scores, and so they have constructed a program that negates a bit of that. That's smart, and that's why he won the gold. If his program was front loaded he'd have likely loss to Miner, similar to how Plushenko loss to Lysacek in Vancouver (a result I don't feel like debating yet again :-P ).

[eyria]

I'm assuming you mean Mirai, and--not to turn this thread into a discussion about the ladies--she wasn't "dragged" from the Kiss & Cry. If you watch the video of her reaction, she very gracefully stood and exited the arena through the tunnel.

There was nothing graceful about it. You could distinctly hear Wendy Olson telling her to get up: "Right now, Mirai." The same way you would tell a 3-year-old. Mirai then stalked off through the tunnel, leaving her coaches behind.

[rkuang]

I can't say I blame her though. Granted, she's known for her strong personality, but it really is heartbreaking to see someone work so hard to come back from a career low and place the same rank as the year before. I'd say that's warranted, I just hated the way cameramen focus on the "drama shots" like that.

[Mathman]

Welcome, SkaterNater! Thanks for joining us.

It's very important that people understand how PCS is judged...just because your skating skills suck doesn't mean you're going to get the same low scores on every other PCS score.

Except that you will. Whatever you get on skating skills, multiply that by ten and you've got your total PCS.

Aaron: SS 8.07, PCS 79.48
Miner: SS 8.54, PCS 84.22
Abbott: SS 8.82, PCS 88.20 (!)
Ferris: SS 7.71, PCS 78.92
Johnson: 7.54. PCS 77.94 (This is the biggest exception. Johnson's presentation was markedly superior to his skating skills.)

[WeakAnkles]

Welcome, SkaterNater! Thanks for joining us.



Except that you will. Whatever you get on skating skills, multiply that by ten and you've got your total PCS.

Aaron: SS 8.07, PCS 79.48
Miner: SS 8.54, PCS 84.22
Abbott: SS 8.82, PCS 88.20 (!)
Ferris: SS 7.71, PCS 78.92
Johnson: 7.54. PCS 77.94 (This is the biggest exception. Johnson's presentation was markedly superior to his skating skills.)

Whoa. Very interesting. Does that just hold true for US skaters or does it hold for other skaters/national championships/world events as well?

[lavender]

Yes, he did. Thank goodness for that. He's become a much better skater, IMO. And funnily enough, hasn't been injured since...while getting injured before was an annual event...




If the USFSA was smart, they'd market the hell out of these guys in a couple of years. How good does it look for the sport to have these two young enormous talents who are so level-headed and well-grounded? There's nothing diva-ish or snarky about them, heck, they have a great rivalry on ice and are good friends off it. It's a PR goldmine.

Thanks...glad Josh moved on. Yes they really need to get Jason, Josh and Alexander out there on the gp senior circuit.

[GypsyFe]

After watching Jeremy...I loved his skating a few years ago - seems like he has become over stylized - trying too hard to live up to his theatrical reputation - and in the process his skating has lost its oopmh - no dynamics - none of the "grab the gold ring"... seems to be working too hard on emotion. Sad!

[Mathman]

Whoa. Very interesting. Does that just hold true for US skaters or does it hold for other skaters/national championships/world events as well?

Well, I haven't done any extensive analysis. But this is one of the common criticisms of the IJS.

I think psychologically, the tendency is to score the first component (SS) as thoughtfully as possible, then to use that as a gauge for all the rest. Experiments have been conducted in which some other component is listed first, like P&E, and then that one, rather than SS, becomes dominant.

Interestingly, TR is almost always the lowest of the five for all skaters. I think this is because it is the easiest to quantify. For components that are most subjective, like INT, I think the judges tend to give the skaters the benefit of the doubt more.

After watching Jeremy...I loved his skating a few years ago - seems like he has become over stylized - trying too hard to live up to his theatrical reputation - and in the process his skating has lost its oopmh - no dynamics - none of the "grab the gold ring"... seems to be working too hard on emotion. Sad!

Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka ), I think Jeremy needs tougher coaches. Someone has to tell him that this is an athletic contest. You can express yourself by soulful moping about on your own time.

[rallycairn]

Whoa. Very interesting. Does that just hold true for US skaters or does it hold for other skaters/national championships/world events as well?

Statistically, having the 5 components is almost always meaningless, because they don't vary much one from the other at all, like Mathman said. You might as well just have one score given the way the scores are used now. I'm not advocating that -- I'd rather judges actually score the components separately, but they don't.

[loveskating]

After watching Jeremy...I loved his skating a few years ago - seems like he has become over stylized - trying too hard to live up to his theatrical reputation - and in the process his skating has lost its oopmh - no dynamics - none of the "grab the gold ring"... seems to be working too hard on emotion. Sad!

Agreed. He is not Tom Dickson you know.

[Eislauf]

Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka ), I think Jeremy needs tougher coaches. Someone has to tell him that this is an athletic contest. You can express yourself by soulful moping about on your own time.

I hear you. I used to love Jeremy's skating but his torturous emoting on ice seemed over-the-top, tiresome to watch and unbelievably self-indulgent. I felt like telling him to get over himself and, as you said, Mathman, save the moping for his private life. I hope someone on his team can help him do this.

[yelyoh]

Yes sad to say Jeremy's programs have nearly become self parody. I was thinking that as I was watching him and saying Jeremy think more about the fact that this is an athletic competition and not an acting audition.

[lavender]

This is the Jeremy we use to know and wow I didn't realized how small he was in 2008/2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R01yT7n8_qQ

[WTFlutz]

I really liked his Les Mis program, but perhaps the song doesn't lend itself to fast powerful skating tho. Jeremy's Exogenesis program from last season is one of my favorite programs of all time. I wish he could have skated that one well at Worlds, but I'll always remember his performance at 2012 Nationals. I loved that program more than anything Chan or Takahashi have ever done. Jeremy is an extraordinary artist.

[loveskating]

This is the Jeremy we use to know and wow I didn't realized how small he was in 2008/2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R01yT7n8_qQ

Yup!