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Thread: 2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP

  1. #391
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    Wow Jeremy looked so much smaller back then even though he was about 22. He looked faster too and his jumps were much better. He no doubt had the talent to accomplish a lot more internationally then he has. Now at almost 28 i can't see him being this good ever again.

  2. #392
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    The difficulty in using "Bring Him Home" (or any piece from Les Miserables), personally, is that the power of the musical comes from the human voice. A poorly sung Les Miserables is a torturous experience (unless I'm singing it, in which case it's torturous for other people). So it rather startles me just how moved I am by this skate. Much like Chan's "Aranjuez" it's such a gorgeous marriage blade and music. Every moment is held for the perfect length of time. It's a program of patience, almost, and that makes it rare. I didn't care for "Exogenesis" - I thought the Kerrs skated to it much better the season earlier and I don't like the music much in the first place. Indeed, I'd argue that Jeremy's more of a great short program skater (to be fair, though, artistically cohesive shorts are far more common), but "Bring Him Home" is so far and away my favourite singles program this year. Beautiful.

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Well, I haven't done any extensive analysis. But this is one of the common criticisms of the IJS.

    I think psychologically, the tendency is to score the first component (SS) as thoughtfully as possible, then to use that as a gauge for all the rest. Experiments have been conducted in which some other component is listed first, like P&E, and then that one, rather than SS, becomes dominant.

    Interestingly, TR is almost always the lowest of the five for all skaters. I think this is because it is the easiest to quantify. For components that are most subjective, like INT, I think the judges tend to give the skaters the benefit of the doubt more.



    Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka ), I think Jeremy needs tougher coaches. Someone has to tell him that this is an athletic contest. You can express yourself by soulful moping about on your own time.
    I love it; that is what I would call Brian Boitano when he became or tried to become artistic. It wasn't innate and there was always that spread eagle and that dramatic stare. Sometimes you just wanted him to fall oops my inner voice lol

  4. #394
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    This is the Jeremy we use to know and wow I didn't realized how small he was in 2008/2009.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R01yT7n8_qQ
    This is still his best performance ever. And one of THE best performances ever. "Transitions" have never been more effectively used than here, except for maybe some of Matt Savoie's programs.

    His SP and LP were also both completely brilliant in in the 2007/2008 season, although he wasn't ever able to deliver all the technical content that season. Jeremy's 3Loop was always gorgeous back then, though. What happened to it?

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    This is still his best performance ever. And one of THE best performances ever. "Transitions" have never been more effectively used than here, except for maybe some of Matt Savoie's programs.
    I am sure that has a lot to do with Tom Dickson,who's work I adore.

  6. #396
    ISU, stop promoting 2-foot skating!
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    You know if judges handed out PCS based on the actual criteria and not how many jumps skaters landed, the gap between Abbott and Aaron would have been so huge, Abbott would have crushed him even with multiple errors on the jumps. Sadly the reality of judging is very different.

    I remember that last time I watched Aaron (JGPF two seasons ago I think?), he had a performance worthy of 1.75 IN. He just ignored the music. This season more effort has been put into his choreography and he has improved his presentation slightly but it's still terrible.

    It really irks me to see so many people say that Max Aaron was the best skater in the SP & FS overall. He wasn't. He landed the most difficult jumps, yes, but he was far, far from being the best skater overall.

    P.S. I owe an apology to Max Aaron, I think he's actually tweezed for Nationals. ;P

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    [Alexander Johnson's] program is also further proof of how brilliant Tom Dickson is.
    This. I really wish more skaters used Dickson instead of Lori Zzzichol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Jason is 18 and just getting a triple axel? Amazing. Just getting a quad, maybe ok, but not a 3a.
    What is amazing about it? The vast majority of competitive skaters are never able to achieve landing that jump consistently.

    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    Who is Alexander?? He is pretty amazing! I saw that he is 23, is he just popping into seniors this year? He is going to go far he is strong technically and artistically, he has such great flow over the ice.
    He's been competing both at international and national level for ages now. This was his 4th Senior Nationals. He was also a Junior bronze medallist. And he has a gold and a bronze JGP medal and made the JGPF once.
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00010277.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Whoa. Very interesting. Does that just hold true for US skaters or does it hold for other skaters/national championships/world events as well?
    It holds true for PCS judging in general. With very very few exceptions, judges never differentiate their PCS marks even though the skaters they are judging usually display very different levels of the PCS abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think psychologically, the tendency is to score the first component (SS) as thoughtfully as possible, then to use that as a gauge for all the rest.
    Yes, something like that. Also, I think that SS is the thing judges notice and care about the most. It was the same during 6.0 days. Presentation mark was basically a skating skills mark even though skating skills were supposed to be evaluated in the technical mark.

    ISU really should bring in split judging panels. I believe it's not possible to fully focus on both the elements and the PCS.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 01-29-2013 at 11:51 PM.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Thanks for the info on Jeremy. It helps me understand what happened. As Jeremy started to skate, I felt such a strong sense of how far above almost all the other Americans he is in the quality of his movements and in his understanding of what skating is. There's a reason he's been near the top for so long and even earned international medals, and a reason he's so compelling to watch, even though he's so often a broken heart waiting to happen. You're right; if only we could graft Max's jumps and temperament onto Jeremy's skating skills....
    i'm glad my post helped put the Jeremy's situation in perspective. at this point, i just want Jeremy to get healthy, strong, and ready so if he is needed at worlds, he can be competitive...regardless, i hope he sticks around for next year. He deserves it. As we all know, he developed more slowly than his peers (Johnny and Evan), and came into the spotlight much later. But as a result, he brings a maturity and wisdom to his skating that makes him that much more enjoyable to watch. Who knows, maybe a healthy and prepared Jeremy will make an appearance next season. Even if the US only gets to send 2 men to Sochi, I just want to see Jeremy end his career on a high note, with one last truly magical skate for his coaches, the fans, and more importantly himself...if anything, to remind everyone (especially USFS) how special the sport of figure skating is and how incredible it has been to watch Jeremy skate and represent Team USA

  8. #398
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    I think it's the tight costume that makes Jeremy look so small. The billowy shirts make him look broader, but put him in a catsuit and I'm sure he'd still look very thin and "tiny" on the ice (although he is fairly tall, or at least appears so, and was even then).

  9. #399
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    OMG...finally had time to sit and watch Alex Johnson's FS...OMG...that was BEAUTIFUL, i think it was best skate of Sunday afternoon. the fluidity, speed, control, elegance, just LOVED IT
    (seriously, NBC you couldn't make time to replay it on the broadcast?!?!?)

    also, I was happy to see Adam enjoy skating for the first time in a while, he was really having fun...i don't know how far he'll get next season, but he definitely got stronger as the season progressed this year and he finally landed THREE 3A's in a competition (albeit the 3rd one didn't have the best landing...) which has to be a sigh of relief for everyone
    Last edited by icebeauty; 01-30-2013 at 12:13 AM.

  10. #400
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    So I'm curious, what do Phil Hersh and Johnny Weir think about the outcome of the men's results? I know Johnny likes Max's eyebrows, but that's about all I know.

  11. #401
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    The difficulty in using "Bring Him Home" (or any piece from Les Miserables), personally, is that the power of the musical comes from the human voice.
    The difficulty in using any piece from Les Miserables is that musically, it's horrible. Every song is built from similar, bland and meandering melodies. The lyrics are awkward, stilted and full of place-holding filler. The power of the musical, such as it is, derives entirely from Victor Hugo's melodrama.

    "Bring Him Home"'s lyrics are laughably bad by themselves, and even more ridiculous in the painfully contrived plot for which it serves. I'm normally a champion of using lyrics and vocals in competitive skating. But this once, it's a relief that Abbott is using an instrumental. Though, really, as soon as he settled on Les Miserables, he was artistically doomed.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake72
    So I'm curious, what do Phil Hersh and Johnny Weir think about the outcome of the men's results? I know Johnny likes Max's eyebrows, but that's about all I know
    . Here's Hersh.

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympi...,3688521.story

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Though, really, as soon as he settled on Les Miserables, he was artistically doomed.
    What do you think about Yuna Kim's version?

  13. #403
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    I love how people make it out that Ross performed so poorly at Worlds in 2011 when he actually skated quite well there, as did Richard. 11th in such a deep field for someone with no street cred was actually a pretty good result. Not enough for 3 spots but Hersh makes it sound like he bombed at Worlds.

  14. #404
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    What do you think about Yuna Kim's version?
    I have to say, if skaters must skate to Lez Miz (and we know they must, especially after the movie is out), then Abbott's program is a model of how to do it right (in as much as one can do it right by skating to something so blergh), and Kim's program is a model of how to do it wrong. Abbott manages to use just one piece of music, despite having to skate a longer program. Kim, on the other hand, uses a disastrous cut of multiple songs. I actually don't understand why her music cuts are so bad. With how samey every song from the musical sounds, they lend themselves to easily fading in and out of one another and being outright mashed-up, which happens quite a bit in the show. Her choreography also fights the music. And unlike Abbott, she really doesn't have the artistic and musical sensitivity to pull off the wretchedness implied in the very title of the thing. The one saving grace for Kim is, the other competitors in her field, being younger than the men, are also less artistically advanced in general, and won't show her up too much. Also, she's actually going to World's, unlike Abbott. *sadtrombone*

    Besides looking to Abbott, Kim should actually watch the recent movie. The movie distinguishes itself from the original musical, and all other movies, by recording all its main actors' singing while they're crying. That's the main selling point of the movie, and the reason why Anne Hathaway will win that Oscar. It is pretty impressive, in a circus trick kind of way. And what is skating if not another kind of circus? If Kim could manage to blubber throughout her entire free skate, then she'll truly understand the spirit of Les Miserables, and earn every 10 coming her way in the PCS.

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Wow Jeremy looked so much smaller back then even though he was about 22. He looked faster too and his jumps were much better. He no doubt had the talent to accomplish a lot more internationally then he has. Now at almost 28 i can't see him being this good ever again.
    Didn't he look great. Maybe that was more his competing weight...I don't know. He was in his twentys already and usually guys don't change that much but he kind of has.

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