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Thread: 2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP

  1. #421
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    Of course, neither of Jeremy's programs survived to Nationals in their original form. Both were altered (jumps/spins)so his back could make it through them. I think the long suffered most. More of the Jumps were changed. Spins were changed after the GP, then again the day before the SP when he found out one spin would not count, and replaced it with another. Someone wrote he accidentally skated the wrong spin by mistake in a practice session before the long.

    So these were not the same programs he had been practicing earlier in the season. He had a lot to think about during the program, because muscle memory wasn't going to be there.

    All in all, I thought he showed a lot of mental strength to get through that long in such a high stress setting as Nationals.

    Yuka picked the music for the LP. He seems to do much better to music he chooses.

    He's had ongoing back issues of one sort or another for a couple years now. Just not sure that can be fixed so he can skate like he used to. His physical capabilities have a limit now. I agree that his mind game has improved...it just happened when his body is giving out. Very, very sad.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyria View Post
    Hey, I have a couple quick questions about Jason Brown. Someone mentioned earlier that his coach, Kori Ade, is moving to Colorado Springs, and that Jason will move with her. Is this confirmed? And what about Jason's choreographer, Rohene Ward? Lastly, and I'm not sure if this is okay to ask, but are Kori and Rohene a couple or just coworkers? Scott Hamilton seemed to refer to them as a couple during the NBC telecast, but I may have misinterpreted that. Just wondering. Thanks.
    Yes, Kori is moving to Colorado Springs, and Jason is following her. It was confirmed in an interview Jason gave before Christmas. He'll be spending some time training at the World Arena, and he will be attending Colorado College in the fall. (He'll split his training time between the World Arena and the rink at Colorado College.)

    I'm sure Rohene won't mind coming to Colorado Springs when he comes back from Europe, or Jason could go back to Chicago to visit. But Rohene was there in Colorado when Kori took her group of skaters (including Jason) there last summer, so I assume it's no biggie for him to just go wherever.

    And Kori and Rohene aren't a couple. Kori is married to someone else and has two kids. In fact - I think it was 2010 when Jason was a Junior - she had her second baby just a few days before the competition. She actually asked the doctor to induce her so that she could go with Jason.

    Hamilton may have been referring to them as a team working on Jason.

  3. #423
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    So given the outcome, I'm curious as to what people think about Max's odds to make the Sochi Olympic team next year? I assume Ross will be on the team, and if there's 3 spots, I'd say Max's chances are pretty good, but if only 2, idk. And I'm not convinced Abbott will be making that team either. It's amazing how different everything seems now from just one year ago in regards to the men.
    We'll have a better idea after 4 CC's & '13 Worlds as to how Max will fare next year. I believe in him. I posted before nationals that I felt that Max, Ross & Ricky were the guys who would lead us back into contention internationally. I still at this moment believe that. I, also, believe that the next 3 or 4 years are going to be very exciting at nationals as there are another 3 or 4 men who will be able to contend for medals including the gold.
    Oh, forgot to say I don't see Abbott being in the mix for the Olympic team.
    Last edited by merrywidow; 01-31-2013 at 12:43 PM.

  4. #424
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    Right now, Max Aaron is basically a one-hit wonder, but there's reason to be hopeful. He just has the look of a competitor... I want to see if this performance is backed up at 4CC and Worlds.

    On the Edge forum, there is a thread indicating he's shooting for five quads next year (SP and LP combined).

    As I said on that thread, anyone (not just Max) who can deliver five quads, three 3A, and all the other triples would be a serious threat in any competition, even with so-so PCS. The technical mark would just be huge.

    We'll see how things turn out. I'm certainly very interested in watching his journey.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post

    Yuka picked the music for the LP. He seems to do much better to music he chooses.
    She did? I had read somewhere that Jeremy picked the Les Mis music and Yuka signed off on it because she had always wanted one of her skaters to use it.

  6. #426
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    I sort of doubt Max Aaron is a one-hit wonder given the consistency and quality of his jumps, particularly the 4s. And I think if there are 3 spots on the team, Jeremy is still likely to be on the team, but if it's just 2, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't make it and the team ended up being Ross and Max or Ross and Richard. Max has made huge improvements over the past few years and there's no reason to think he won't continue to do so. I'll be curious to see who finishes higher at 4CC and Worlds between Aaron and Miner.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Right now, Max Aaron is basically a one-hit wonder, but there's reason to be hopeful. He just has the look of a competitor... I want to see if this performance is backed up at 4CC and Worlds.

    On the Edge forum, there is a thread indicating he's shooting for five quads next year (SP and LP combined).

    As I said on that thread, anyone (not just Max) who can deliver five quads, three 3A, and all the other triples would be a serious threat in any competition, even with so-so PCS. The technical mark would just be huge.

    We'll see how things turn out. I'm certainly very interested in watching his journey.
    Why is it we can't seem to come up with a skater that can jump but also has some artistic skills too. It seems like its one or the other such as with Max or Gracie. And the skaters who do have both seem to be headcases when it comes to competing such as Jeremy. When we do have a consistent tough competitor it's someone like Rachel Flatt who just never had the talent or skills to ever be a World champion.
    Last edited by Jammers; 02-01-2013 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #428
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Max and Gracie are both young, though, and have time to develop some artistic qualities. I thought Ross was rather boring when he made the world team two years ago, but he's grown exponentially over the last 2 years in this area.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Max and Gracie are both young, though, and have time to develop some artistic qualities. I thought Ross was rather boring when he made the world team two years ago, but he's grown exponentially over the last 2 years in this area.
    True about Ross. I was bored with him in the past but he seems to have grown in his skating in the last year of so. Max needs to leave Tom Z though because his skaters are known for lacking certain skills and having boring choreography and skating slow. All you had to do was watch Rachel Flatt or Brandon Mroz to see that. Farris and Agnes have improved a lot since they left him. Max does skate with a lot of speed though which makes me think with a different coach he could be much better.

  10. #430
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauf View Post
    She did? I had read somewhere that Jeremy picked the Les Mis music and Yuka signed off on it because she had always wanted one of her skaters to use it.
    It definitely sounds like something he would choose. Such a beautiful program, especially the way it was originally choreographed with that triple axel/ triple axel sequence that hit the music so well.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    It definitely sounds like something he would choose. Such a beautiful program, especially the way it was originally choreographed with that triple axel/ triple axel sequence that hit the music so well.
    i believe Jeremy has stated in an interview that he picked the music and he started working on the choreography before he knew EVERYONE else also chose it...and he was pretty clear in saying that he was bummed that everyone seemed to gravitate towards it b/c of the movie being released and he actually didn't realize that the film was coming out in 2012...LOL

    but you make an excellent point here about Jeremy using the music so well with the examples of the placements of the 3A jumps/sequence. It's a real pity that more skaters and their choreographers don't do that...

  12. #432
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Why is it we can't seem to come up with a skater that can jump but also has some artistic skills too. It seems like its one or the other such as with Max or Gracie. And the skaters who do have both seem to be headcases when it comes to competing such as Jeremy. When we do have a consistent tough competitor it's someone like Rachel Flatt who just never had the talent or skills to ever be a World champion.
    It seems to me that Ross Miner fills that bill for US men at present. It's quite difficult to be the best both athletically & artistically. Look at Jason Brown & the trouble he's having with difficult jumps. Mark Mitchell, (Miner's coach) had a lovely style but problems landing jumps, same with Paul Wylie. Damon Allen, Farris' coach is another example. Due to the depth of competition in the US it's hard to make our National team & have it all. Takes a lot of training & excellent coaching. It isn't impossible to succeed both artistically & athletically but Patrick Chan is a rarity, you know. And don't forget, it takes money, alot of it.

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrywidow View Post
    It seems to me that Ross Miner fills that bill for US men at present. It's quite difficult to be the best both athletically & artistically. Look at Jason Brown & the trouble he's having with difficult jumps. Mark Mitchell, (Miner's coach) had a lovely style but problems landing jumps, same with Paul Wylie. Damon Allen, Farris' coach is another example. Due to the depth of competition in the US it's hard to make our National team & have it all. Takes a lot of training & excellent coaching. It isn't impossible to succeed both artistically & athletically but Patrick Chan is a rarity, you know. And don't forget, it takes money, alot of it.
    Plus one could say that Patrick Chan doesn't always succeed athletically, at least not in every program.

  14. #434
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrywidow View Post
    It seems to me that Ross Miner fills that bill for US men at present. It's quite difficult to be the best both athletically & artistically. Look at Jason Brown & the trouble he's having with difficult jumps. Mark Mitchell, (Miner's coach) had a lovely style but problems landing jumps, same with Paul Wylie. Damon Allen, Farris' coach is another example. Due to the depth of competition in the US it's hard to make our National team & have it all. Takes a lot of training & excellent coaching. It isn't impossible to succeed both artistically & athletically but Patrick Chan is a rarity, you know. And don't forget, it takes money, alot of it.
    Actually, Jason Brown's trouble is with one jump -- the 3A. But he's always been in the game (top 10 at Nationals at the senior level and a decent international career in juniors) because his other triples have been of high quality along with his strong artistry. Until he brought the 3A in, he had pretty clean programs. I get that 3A is a must in senior men internationally -- and obviously Brown and his team knows that. But his 3A seems to be getting better quite quickly.

    His nationals performance was actually pretty good --it was great to see him attempt two 3As, including once with a 3T. And he had that great 3Z-1L-3S combo in the second half of the program.

    That said, I agree it's tough to balance both. And I think Jeremy's issue isn't balance, but more of his injuries that is keeping him from training as much as he would like for some of those harder jumps, namely the quad.

  15. #435
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    Maybe slightly OT, but I thought Jeremy turned down being an alternate to Worlds to focus on getting his injury healed and working on the quad. Can anyone confirm if this is true? If it is, it means the first alternate is Adam Rippon, in which case, apprehension of Max's chances I really don't understand, because given Rippon's jump quality and not trying a quad in his programs this season, I'd say Max has much better odds to potentially place higher at Worlds. He could also place lower, but the way I see it, Ross and Max COULD get 3 spots for the US men for next season, whereas with Ross and Adam, getting 3 spots is really a pipe dream IMO.

    The way I see it, there are 3 groups of men of interest to Ross and Max that will be at Worlds, and they can be broken down as follows:

    Skaters who almost certainly place ahead of Ross and Max, barring disaster

    Chan
    Takahashi
    Hanyu

    Skaters who could place above or below Ross and Max based on how they skate

    Fernandez - almost put him in the above group, but Ross did beat him at NHK and he only managed 9th at last year's worlds, so if the demons come back to haunt him, he could end up in the lower top 10
    Mura - hot and cold skater. when he's on, he's great and likely capable of outscoring the US men, but sometimes he can be quite off and his scores are not very impressive at all.
    Amodio - usually consistent and gets good PCS, but he has had some random meltdowns in the past and hitting or missing his quads could make a big difference in his scores and placement. if they all go clean, Amodio likely tops the 2 Americans, but otherwise, it's up in the air
    Joubert - quads and skating cleanly are really what it comes down to, if he does both those things, his PCS will be pretty high and he'd likely beat the Americans. but he's not COP-savvy and is mistake prone, inconsistent as of late, and his age is working against him. also, when he makes mistakes, the scores drop a lot
    Brezina - like Mura, hot and cold skater. has the quad and will be rewarded if he hits them and skates cleanly/near cleanly, but from a PCS standpoint he doesn't have much over Miner. it will all come down to execution, his scores over the past couple seasons have been all over the place. If clean, he likely beats both US men, but a clean Brezina since he started doing the quads in his programs doesn't seem that likely at this point, and when he makes mistakes, his PCS don't really hold him up

    Men that could beat the US guys, but most likely won't

    Song - capable of huge quads but his PCS are low even when he hits them. given the concussion he suffered in the fall and that as of late, his performances have not been up to the standard they were on the 2011 GP, I tend to think the US guys will beat him unless they falter and/or Song is on fire
    Reynolds - he has quads galore in his arsenal but URs are an issue and the 3a often gives him trouble, negating some of his insane content. also, his PCS tend to be lower than Miner's and even beyond the quads he isn't a stranger to mistakes and pops.
    Kovtun/Voronov (the Russian fed will send one or the other yes?) - both great technical skaters with solid quads, but neither will have PCS advantage over our guys and should they make mistakes, the PCS could drop into a quite mediocre range very easily
    Verner - with the way he's skated this season he shouldn't even be mentioned, but he is capable of a quad and will get good PCS if through some miracle he puts out two good performances here. and he did score 230 at his nationals last month, so while I highly doubt Tomas will deliver, if he somehow does, there's a chance he could place higher than Ross and Max

    Do other people see things as similar? Also, am I forgetting anyone of importance? I believe Denis Ten is injured and won't compete, though if he does I'd probably add him to the 3rd group, even though at his best he could be in the 2nd. So basically, to get 3 spots, the US guys can afford all of the guys in group 1 and 2 of the guys in group 2 to place ahead of them, so long as no one in group 3 (or none of the groups) beats them. It won't be easy but I think it could be possible. Most of the guys in group 2 are just very inconsistent so it's hard to tell how they will fair.

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