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Thread: I feel sorry for Caroline Zhang

  1. #31
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    If enough people bomb, and she gets rid of her bad habits on the ice, possibly... but without fixing what others have listed? I'd say chances are slim to none.
    Haven't these problems been evident to her for years? I don't see what would motivate her now to try to make these changes. And does she still have time? Figure skating is unforgiving to ladies past 20 or so. By the time she's fundamentally revamped her skating skills, will she still be able to compete at the elite level?

  2. #32
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Haven't these problems been evident to her for years? I don't see what would motivate her now to try to make these changes. And does she still have time? Figure skating is unforgiving to ladies past 20 or so. By the time she's fundamentally revamped her skating skills, will she still be able to compete at the elite level?
    I do think she has time, but she would have to be willing to put in a LOT of work and make her goal 2018 not 2014. Some people don't hit their peak in the sport until 24 or 25 anyway (Kostner and Czisny come to mind as recent examples). Of course, she'd also have to dodge injury. Really though I think it is up to her. Again, she would need to be willing to candidly assess what is wrong and devote most of the next 2 seasons to fixing it, accepting she's unlikely to be in serious medal contention during that time. While I hear you about the current nature of the sport, it isn't as if she is currently 24 or 25.

  3. #33
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    DL and I both mentioned them back when Caroline was in Juniors. At the time, Nagasu had miles better technique as did Flatt (who skated Seniors the year they went 1-2 in Juniors at Nationals) as did Wagner (who was the forgotten 3rd behind these 2). I think Wagner used the lack of spotlight (almost girl) to look deep inside herself and make some fundamental changes based upon the feedback she was getting (over time) first moving from Mrs. Shirley Hughes to Prescilla Hill and finally to John Nicks/Phillip Mills. Nagasu seems to have rested on that glory somewhat and hasn't lived up to flashes of brilliance she showed by winning Juniors then Seniors back to back and then finishing 4th at the Olympics and has had some technique issues since becoming more adult like in her body structure. Flatt may be moving on but not without being Miss Consistent for several years when USFS needed it. The one thing that would motivate Caroline to finally fix these issues is that final shot at "glory" in this sport.

  4. #34
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    Caroline should fix her basic skating skills. All other things will fall in place. Go back to basic. I skate from time to time, but I don't really know how to improve my basic, actually. Maybe it's really hard otherwise everyone would have good basic skills.

  5. #35
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    She was more screwed over last year. I wish she would have been placed 2nd at Nationals then and been on the World team for the first time.

    This year she was screwed over in the SP with the way her combination jump got called and perhaps held down a bit in general, but she didn't deserve to place all that well anyway. Her performances were better last year and the field was stronger this year. What happened to that Layback spin?

  6. #36
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    Do we have any recent examples of someone dramatically improving their basic skating skills from poor to average or to good?

  7. #37
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    ITA with this. The technique for rotating triples at 13 with a little girl's body is completely different than the technique needed for success as a woman. And you're right about Caroline being rewarded early on; she was dominant as a junior in 06-07 and had a fine season as a first year senior in 07-08.

    I see someone like Julia L now, who jumps in the same way Caroline did, and I just know she is going to have the same problems as Zhang did.
    Also, 'figures' were pretty much eliminated. The practice of figures made skaters learn edge control. I don't think Caroline and others in her age group had to practice figures while MK and Tara did for at least a breif period. Figures is one of the reasons why there were few baby ballerina's before 1994.

  8. #38
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Caroline did her best-she was happy. Clearly she should retire unless she has a lot of money and wants to go to nationals again. They let her know how she should think of the future-unforgiving is right-but reality. It is nice to see her skate, but I think she is very slow, very plodding. In another time, she'd be appreciated but judges did her a favor if she/family are pouring money down the drain. I liked her but even the pearl wasn't held out. I suspect the standing O was to thank her for trying so hard and she stayed on her feet. She went out with a good skate for her. Not sad at all. Mirai's reaction was sad. She had some great skates in the sun. It's done I think.

  9. #39
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Haven't these problems been evident to her for years? I don't see what would motivate her now to try to make these changes. And does she still have time? Figure skating is unforgiving to ladies past 20 or so. By the time she's fundamentally revamped her skating skills, will she still be able to compete at the elite level?
    Joannie was able to. Angela Nikodinov reinvented herself and was steadily climbing - had her coach and then mother not passed away who knows how she'd have done - so yes I think being "older" you can still have a chance if you're serious about it and have that mental toughness (Joannie had that, Angela not as much).

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Joannie was able to. Angela Nikodinov reinvented herself and was steadily climbing - had her coach and then mother not passed away who knows how she'd have done - so yes I think being "older" you can still have a chance if you're serious about it and have that mental toughness (Joannie had that, Angela not as much).
    The only change Joannie made was to eliminate the flutz and develop a true lutz, and that cost her two full seasons. Mao has also reworked her jump technique. Again, it was a two year process, and Mao had some of the best basic skating in the World before she started.

  11. #41
    Banned Reginald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I do think she has time, but she would have to be willing to put in a LOT of work and make her goal 2018 not 2014. Some people don't hit their peak in the sport until 24 or 25 anyway (Kostner and Czisny come to mind as recent examples). Of course, she'd also have to dodge injury. Really though I think it is up to her. Again, she would need to be willing to candidly assess what is wrong and devote most of the next 2 seasons to fixing it, accepting she's unlikely to be in serious medal contention during that time. While I hear you about the current nature of the sport, it isn't as if she is currently 24 or 25.
    Don't forget Akiko Suzuki, who didn't really get going until age 24.



    Never say never!

  12. #42
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    Caroline should get at least one GP event next season. Possibly two, but at least one. If she can earn decent scores in front od ISU judges again, U.S. judges will view her more favorably.

  13. #43
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjane45 View Post
    Do we have any recent examples of someone dramatically improving their basic skating skills from poor to average or to good?
    I'd say Cohen is one who went from OK to good skating skills over her career when she learned to use her edges more properly. When she first burst on the scene, she had shallow edging and no power/speed. By 2006, she was much better at generating power and her edging was much better. Caroline could stand to work with an ice dance coach to fix that. I know many a skater who has done that (at the lower levels, probably more around the age she burst on the scene) effectively.

  14. #44
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    AFAIR, isn't that how Charlie White got started ice dancing? (Granted at about age 9) Because he skated like a hockey player, and it affected his singles' skating?

    Basic skating skills is the sort of problem that I think a coach should deal with when the kid is very early in their career.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    I'd say Cohen is one who went from OK to good skating skills over her career when she learned to use her edges more properly.
    Thanks! So is it too late at 19 to completely revamp the basic skating skills? What would be a reasonable age range?

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