I feel sorry for Caroline Zhang

[tulosai]

Thanks! So is it too late at 19 to completely revamp the basic skating skills? What would be a reasonable age range?

I don't think it is an age range so much as that she is going to need to put in a LOT of work. It gets harder the longer you have skated 'wrong' as habits are ingrained, but it's going to vary person to person how quickly (and, I suppose, IF) you can make progress. I think, as I said above, that it is more a question of how long it might take her than her age, and I'd say at least/around 2 years total (including incorporating her new skating skills into full and complete programs) is about a reasonable estimate.

It isn't that she or anyone is ever per se too old to do this. It's more a question of the time it will take, and how precious time is in the life of a competitive figure skater.

[mskater93]

Cohen improved when she went to Robin Wagner and then Tat, so around the same age.

[PolymerBob]

I am not a coach, nor a trainer, nor a skating judge. But for however little my opinion is worth, half of Caroline's problems will be solved in the gym.

[mskater93]

I don't think so, PB. 80% of her problems will be solved by learning how to SKATE better with better knee and ankle action in general with her skating...

[Dragonlady]

I am not a coach, nor a trainer, nor a skating judge. But for however little my opinion is worth, half of Caroline's problems will be solved in the gym.

Please don't start in on Caroline's weight and fitness level again. You've been on this hobby horse since her results went downhill and refuse to accept that her problems are technical, not physical. Caroline's weight is not an appropriate topic of conversation for a fan forum.

[chuckm]

Cohen improved when she went to Robin Wagner and then Tat, so around the same age.

Sasha was with Tat BEFORE she was with Wagner. She broke with Tat around Nationals and then went to Wagner. She didn't improve with Wagner either. Wagner wanted her to work on 3/3s and Sasha didn't think she needed harder jumps. Robin lasted less than 9 months.

[drivingmissdaisy]

I am not a coach, nor a trainer, nor a skating judge. But for however little my opinion is worth, half of Caroline's problems will be solved in the gym.

There's a difference between fitness level and body type. Caroline appears to have very muscular legs and that can make it harder to rotate jumps when you compare to how she was at 14. So I disagree that she's out of shape but I think her body type may not be as optimal for jumping as someone who carries less muscle, such as Michelle Kwan. I kind of feel the same way about Mirai.

[mskater93]

I think if she had better knee and ankle action on her jumps instead of using so much upper body, she'd be in a lot better shape with rotating her jumps (Nagasu, too). Both seem to try and use their upper body to make the jump rotation happen when if they let the "edge do its work" they'd be better off.

[Reginald]

My top 5 moments from Caroline Zhang

2012 Rostelecom Short Program

2007 International Counter Match Short Program

2008 Nationals Long Program

2009 Four Continents Exhibition

2007 Marshalls Exhibition
This isn't Marshalls, but she skated the same program.

[Dragonlady]

Sasha was with Tat BEFORE she was with Wagner. She broke with Tat around Nationals and then went to Wagner. She didn't improve with Wagner either. Wagner wanted her to work on 3/3s and Sasha didn't think she needed harder jumps. Robin lasted less than 9 months.

My understanding was that Wagner wanted her to work or her stroking and edging. That's what Wagner said in an interview. And she did improve under Wagner. Her stroking and edges were really noisy and scratchy before she trained with Wagner, but not after.

[PolymerBob]

Please don't start in on Caroline's weight and fitness level again. You've been on this hobby horse since her results went downhill and refuse to accept that her problems are technical, not physical. Caroline's weight is not an appropriate topic of conversation for a fan forum.

I did not mention Caroline's weight Miss DL, you did.
My thought was that if Caroline was stronger, she could get more full rotations.

[Olympia]

My understanding was that Wagner wanted her to work or her stroking and edging. That's what Wagner said in an interview. And she did improve under Wagner. Her stroking and edges were really noisy and scratchy before she trained with Wagner, but not after.

That's interesting. I remember several GS people saying at one time that Sasha was one of the best skaters from the ankles up. I love that she worked on the ankles-down part even after she was one of the top contenders and probably could have rested on her laurels.

Coincidentally, I recently watched two videos of Sasha from 1999 (the year she was fourteen) and 2000, and those videos reminded me how finished and elegant she was (from the ankles up) even as a junior. One rarely sees such sophisticated style in a very young skater; even Michelle didn't give that impression as a fourteen-year-old, when she came in fourth at 1995 Worlds. (Michelle at 1996 Worlds was a different story, of course! That's the Salome year, when she became magical and unparalleled.) Caroline and Mirai were exquisite as juniors but not mature in presentation the way Sasha was, in my opinion. I'm sure many of us long for both Caroline and Mirai to regain the form they had as babies, whereas there was nothing for us to long for Sasha to regain as she got older. We only yearned for her to gain consistency, but even without it, she was a splendid skater with one of the best careers of any American lady, and always rewarding to watch.

[Kitt]

Well put, Olympia. Sasha is definitely my all-time favorite skater and the one who got me interested in ladies' figure skating. Wish she was still appearing in SOI - guess I'll have to settle for Katia :-)

[PolymerBob]

My top 5 moments from Caroline Zhang

2012 Rostelecom Short Program

2007 International Counter Match Short Program

2008 Nationals Long Program

2009 Four Continents Exhibition

2007 Marshalls Exhibition
This isn't Marshalls, but she skated the same program.

The Four Continents exhibition was like a Twilight Zone. Rachael and Alissa were also in this event. They were the American ladies' world team, but they finished below Caroline and failed to qualify for the exhibition. ( Remember, this was a packed field. )

[Dragonlady]

That's interesting. I remember several GS people saying at one time that Sasha was one of the best skaters from the ankles up. I love that she worked on the ankles-down part even after she was one of the top contenders and probably could have rested on her laurels.

She left Wagner specifically because she didn't think she needed to work on her edges. She certainly couldn't rest on her laurels because lack of strong edges plagued her to the end of her career. The time she spent with Wagner improved her stroking, but it was still the weakest part of her skating and until she retired, she had the weakest basic skating of any of the top contenders.