5 Quads for Max Aaron? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

5 Quads for Max Aaron?

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Max didn't get high PCS scores from the USFS judges in the SP, where he landed 4S+3t, 3z, 3a: 7.04 5.93 6.96 6.75 6.96. SS yes, everything else, no. IMO Max would probably get a similar SP score (79) from ISU judges.

There's not a whole lot of difference between 7.04 and 6.96 besides the psychological factor of breaking the 7.0 barrier.
 

Sevice

Spectator
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Let's face it, getting 5 quads in a competition is a more realistic goal for Aaron than him improving his artistry. The man knows his strengths and limits. Why waste lipstick on this pig when he can win best in show by oinking louder?

:laugh: :rofl: Serious business, king/queen of zingers!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Let's face it, getting 5 quads in a competition is a more realistic goal for Aaron than him improving his artistry. The man knows his strengths and limits. Why waste lipstick on this pig when he can win best in show by oinking louder?

Ouch. That's pretty harsh. I think artistry would be a better thing to develop because depending on the competition you might land 2 quads, 5 quads, or no quads, but there's not much variable "risk" in artistry. I think Aaron is going for technical brilliance and maybe even records. If you think about it, Elvis built a career/reputation and Goebel won Olympic bronze by being the skater who relied on big tricks. Aaron would probably attempt 4 quads in his long program were he capable of that, but I think Reynolds would beat him to the punch. Reynolds could theoretically attempt 5 quads in a program, considering how close he's come to landing 4L, and how easily he can do the 4S (4T being a bit less consistent). Could you imagine a jump layout: 4S+3T, 4L, 4S, 4T+3T, 4T, 3A, 3Z, 3F+3L+2L -- that's 87.3 points of just jumps alone! Never gonna happen but I think we were saying that about 3 quads in one program before the days of Goebel/Fernandez/Reynolds.
 

kimmsie68

Spectator
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Max won the championship title because he NAILED his programs on Sunday! No one else managed to deliver like Max did, which is exactly why he is deserves 1st place. His jumps and power were awesome to watch and I am looking forward to seeing what he does next. GO MAX!! You Rock!
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Reynolds' jump technique is faulty: he attempts lots of quads in his FS but rarely rotates and lands all of them. His 3A is iffy and often UR. He is one of the few men who regularly flutz.

Max is a more consistent jumper than Reynolds and he has less missteps.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Hahaha Chuckm I was going to ask compare Reynolds to Aaron? who is more artistic. Was Reynolds FS (I looked it up) a fluke??? It looked better than Aaron's but that was just me. Mind you I always feel like deducting a point or two for Kevin's appearance - his hair is distracting in a bad way.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I don't think either Reynolds nor Aaron can be called artistic. Like Stojko and Goebel, they are jumpers. I do think Aaron has cleaner jumps than Reynolds, though.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Reynolds' jump technique is faulty: he attempts lots of quads in his FS but rarely rotates and lands all of them. His 3A is iffy and often UR. He is one of the few men who regularly flutz.

Max is a more consistent jumper than Reynolds and he has less missteps.

Reynolds has a clean 4S, which is usually rotated and has been doing it for years. I haven't seen much of Max beyond Nationals, so I can't say for certain how consistent it is. Reynolds also has a 4T which is about half as consistent as his 4S, but usually he can rotate it at least (the landing is less reliable than his salchow). Max does have a nicer 3A, though Reynolds is finding renewed consistency in that jump. Adding the 3F-3L, too, Reynolds overall has greater jump content.

I think 4CC will be very telling as both skaters have had the skates of their lives (both SP and FS) at nationals and will hopefully be able to bring it to the international stage. I think due to experience Reynolds would prevail.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Reynolds has more experience than Aaron seeing the Canadian has already competed in several World Championships and finished among Top 12 more than once. Technically, Reynolds has more difficult jumps on paper but Aaron's technique is cleaner, which means everything else being equal, Aaron will have higher GOE than Reynolds. GOE is what's holding Reynolds back but as far as the presentation is concerned, Reynolds' experience place him at an advantage over Aaron at this point. Aaron mentioned in his post-Nationals interview that he is getting help on his presentation from Kathy Johnson and Patrick Chan but still, he has a long way to go to learn how to perform.

My feeling is that Aaron has a better upside potential than Reynolds because the Canadian #2 guy has had some difficulty building a reputation as a clean jumper among international judges and that can really come back and haunt you in the same way that Asada is pretty much forced to give up her Triple Axel because judges don't buy that it being a clean jump. So despite that on paper, Reynolds have 5 Quads and some pretty amazing combos, getting them credited as clean with positive GOE is another story.

That said, Aaron will still have a hard time beating Reynolds this year but going forward, if Aaron can improve in the right direction, he may well be the next Elvis Stojko.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Reynolds hasn't developed presentation skills because his coach Joanne McLeod doesn't seem to know how to do that. Remember Mira Leung?

Unfortunately, Max Aaron has the US version of McLeod in Tom Zakrajsek. Zakrajsek used to coach (among others) Rachael Flatt, Agnes Zawadzki and Joshua Farris. All three ultimately left him. Tom Z now has Brandon Mroz, who jumps like a robot with no expression, and Max Aaron, who moved from Arizona to Broadmoor. I'd like to see Max get away from Tom Z ASAP!
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I would imagine that any skater who can (over the course of two programs) successful land 5 quads, 3 triple axels, and the full complement of "lesser" triples would amass such staggering technical merit that they would be a medal threat, even with average PCS.

Of course, the trick to this is actually landing them in the pressure of the moment.
 

Ilvskating

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Reynolds hasn't developed presentation skills because his coach Joanne McLeod doesn't seem to know how to do that. Remember Mira Leung?

Unfortunately, Max Aaron has the US version of McLeod in Tom Zakrajsek. Zakrajsek used to coach (among others) Rachael Flatt, Agnes Zawadzki and Joshua Farris. All three ultimately left him. Tom Z now has Brandon Mroz, who jumps like a robot with no expression, and Max Aaron, who moved from Arizona to Broadmoor. I'd like to see Max get away from Tom Z ASAP!

Actually Kevin Reynolds has improved a lot in artistry and quite decent now. I guess once you get the bad reputation it is hard to get rid of it, just as people with good rep would still score height even when they skate badly.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Aaron was 5th at 2011 JW with a total score of 193+. He didn't have the quad then, but he landed two clean 3As.
This season, he won the US International Classic, scoring 231.27, landing a 4S combo in the SP and a 4S in the FS.
He was 2nd behind Keegan Messing at Coupe de Nice, scoring 219.62; he didn't land any quads there.
 

skatel80

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Reynolds' jump technique is faulty: he attempts lots of quads in his FS but rarely rotates and lands all of them. His 3A is iffy and often UR. He is one of the few men who regularly flutz.

Max is a more consistent jumper than Reynolds and he has less missteps.

Yeah Youre right, when I saw max being compared to Kevin I was kind of like ....no , Jumps are considered a strength for both of them but that is where the similarity ends IMO Max really JUMPS! his jumps are huge, Kevin gets very little height on any of his jumps, even his triples, his 3a is really weak too, and Aarons is a monster!
 
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