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Thread: 5 Quads for Max Aaron?

  1. #16
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    At some international events (junior worlds 2011 for example) his pcs scores have been on par with those of Jason Brown, who seems to be thought of as "artistic". In the short program there, his pcs score was slightly higher than Jason's. In the long, slightly lower.

  2. #17
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    At some international events (junior worlds 2011 for example) his pcs scores have been on par with those of Jason Brown, who seems to be thought of as "artistic". In the short program there, his pcs score was slightly higher than Jason's. In the long, slightly lower.
    Oh I know, the judging at that competition was atrocious. Andrei Rogozine, with the posture and urgency of a sedated slug, got the highest PCS in the FS at 2011 Junior Worlds, and won the whole thing, somehow. Those judges were deranged.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    At some international events (junior worlds 2011 for example) his pcs scores have been on par with those of Jason Brown, who seems to be thought of as "artistic". In the short program there, his pcs score was slightly higher than Jason's. In the long, slightly lower.
    Jason Brown isn't just 'though of as "artistic"'. Jason Brown as one of the most complex, best choreographed programs in figure skating that he presents beautifully and skates to the music. And his basics are good.

    But if you land your jumps, PCS follow suit. So expect 7s for Aaron at Worlds I guess...

  4. #19
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    Max didn't get high PCS scores from the USFS judges in the SP, where he landed 4S+3t, 3z, 3a: 7.04 5.93 6.96 6.75 6.96. SS yes, everything else, no. IMO Max would probably get a similar SP score (79) from ISU judges.

    In the FS, he landed 4s+2t, 4s, 3a+2t, 3z, 3a, 3t+1lo+3s, 3fe, 3lo and his PCS scores were 8.07 7.25 8.39 7.96 8.07. So his US FS score (175.45) is somewhat inflated. But 170-171 might be a realistic ISU score for his FS performance.

    That would be a total score of about 250, which would have placed Max 4th at 2012 Worlds.

    There is a chance that Max and Ross can get 3 spots back for Sochi. Ross was 11th at 2011 Worlds, but that was before he had a quad; he scored over 230 at NHK. Scores of 250/230 at 2012 Worlds would be 4th/7th. There IS hope!

  5. #20
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    Isn't Max's father a doctor? If so, I imagine he is being checked on regularly.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Max didn't get high PCS scores from the USFS judges in the SP, where he landed 4S+3t, 3z, 3a: 7.04 5.93 6.96 6.75 6.96. SS yes, everything else, no. IMO Max would probably get a similar SP score (79) from ISU judges.
    There's not a whole lot of difference between 7.04 and 6.96 besides the psychological factor of breaking the 7.0 barrier.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Let's face it, getting 5 quads in a competition is a more realistic goal for Aaron than him improving his artistry. The man knows his strengths and limits. Why waste lipstick on this pig when he can win best in show by oinking louder?
    Serious business, king/queen of zingers!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Let's face it, getting 5 quads in a competition is a more realistic goal for Aaron than him improving his artistry. The man knows his strengths and limits. Why waste lipstick on this pig when he can win best in show by oinking louder?
    Ouch. That's pretty harsh. I think artistry would be a better thing to develop because depending on the competition you might land 2 quads, 5 quads, or no quads, but there's not much variable "risk" in artistry. I think Aaron is going for technical brilliance and maybe even records. If you think about it, Elvis built a career/reputation and Goebel won Olympic bronze by being the skater who relied on big tricks. Aaron would probably attempt 4 quads in his long program were he capable of that, but I think Reynolds would beat him to the punch. Reynolds could theoretically attempt 5 quads in a program, considering how close he's come to landing 4L, and how easily he can do the 4S (4T being a bit less consistent). Could you imagine a jump layout: 4S+3T, 4L, 4S, 4T+3T, 4T, 3A, 3Z, 3F+3L+2L -- that's 87.3 points of just jumps alone! Never gonna happen but I think we were saying that about 3 quads in one program before the days of Goebel/Fernandez/Reynolds.

  9. #24
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    Max won the championship title because he NAILED his programs on Sunday! No one else managed to deliver like Max did, which is exactly why he is deserves 1st place. His jumps and power were awesome to watch and I am looking forward to seeing what he does next. GO MAX!! You Rock!

  10. #25
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    Reynolds' jump technique is faulty: he attempts lots of quads in his FS but rarely rotates and lands all of them. His 3A is iffy and often UR. He is one of the few men who regularly flutz.

    Max is a more consistent jumper than Reynolds and he has less missteps.

  11. #26
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    Hahaha Chuckm I was going to ask compare Reynolds to Aaron? who is more artistic. Was Reynolds FS (I looked it up) a fluke??? It looked better than Aaron's but that was just me. Mind you I always feel like deducting a point or two for Kevin's appearance - his hair is distracting in a bad way.

  12. #27
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    I don't think either Reynolds nor Aaron can be called artistic. Like Stojko and Goebel, they are jumpers. I do think Aaron has cleaner jumps than Reynolds, though.

  13. #28
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Welcome, Kimsie68. Thanks for joining us. Go Max!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Reynolds' jump technique is faulty: he attempts lots of quads in his FS but rarely rotates and lands all of them. His 3A is iffy and often UR. He is one of the few men who regularly flutz.

    Max is a more consistent jumper than Reynolds and he has less missteps.
    Reynolds has a clean 4S, which is usually rotated and has been doing it for years. I haven't seen much of Max beyond Nationals, so I can't say for certain how consistent it is. Reynolds also has a 4T which is about half as consistent as his 4S, but usually he can rotate it at least (the landing is less reliable than his salchow). Max does have a nicer 3A, though Reynolds is finding renewed consistency in that jump. Adding the 3F-3L, too, Reynolds overall has greater jump content.

    I think 4CC will be very telling as both skaters have had the skates of their lives (both SP and FS) at nationals and will hopefully be able to bring it to the international stage. I think due to experience Reynolds would prevail.

  15. #30
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    Reynolds has more experience than Aaron seeing the Canadian has already competed in several World Championships and finished among Top 12 more than once. Technically, Reynolds has more difficult jumps on paper but Aaron's technique is cleaner, which means everything else being equal, Aaron will have higher GOE than Reynolds. GOE is what's holding Reynolds back but as far as the presentation is concerned, Reynolds' experience place him at an advantage over Aaron at this point. Aaron mentioned in his post-Nationals interview that he is getting help on his presentation from Kathy Johnson and Patrick Chan but still, he has a long way to go to learn how to perform.

    My feeling is that Aaron has a better upside potential than Reynolds because the Canadian #2 guy has had some difficulty building a reputation as a clean jumper among international judges and that can really come back and haunt you in the same way that Asada is pretty much forced to give up her Triple Axel because judges don't buy that it being a clean jump. So despite that on paper, Reynolds have 5 Quads and some pretty amazing combos, getting them credited as clean with positive GOE is another story.

    That said, Aaron will still have a hard time beating Reynolds this year but going forward, if Aaron can improve in the right direction, he may well be the next Elvis Stojko.

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