Can Kostner hold off Russian babies? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Can Kostner hold off Russian babies?

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
This is a tremendously helpful and enjoyable thread! Thanks to everyone for the precise examination of all the moves. Comparing the two skaters element by element makes me understand not only what the skaters are doing but how I can look at them to get more out of what I'm seeing.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I must say you've persuaded me a bit when it comes to Yu-Na's layback. It's very fast and well-centered, however her free leg position is so terrible that I just can't appreciate the whole thing "properly", its good qualities notwithstanding. I was skating-wise brought up listening to Dick Button and with all due respect to Sandra and Scott I respect his opinion more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bYtM0vmtkM&t=2m34s
I don't deny it's fast and well-centered but the positions are inferior to those of Mao's.

Cool, glad you can see some of the nicer qualities of Yu-Na's layback. :) You are entitled to love and admire whatever qualities you like, so if the position of the free leg is very important to you, then that's cool and I'm not trying to change how you feel. :cool: I just gotta disagree about certain observations, because I haven't seen the video support there in the past, but we're all entitled to love certain qualities more than others.

I listened to Dick Button quite a bit, and I thought his obsession with the free leg was a bit much for a spin that's called the layback spin. But his ranting paid off, to a certain extent. Most American girls have terrific extension of the free leg in their laybacks. Pity though that Dick Button never paid as much attention to the issue of flutzing. I think the US girls would be better off today if he had. *shrug*

Dick Button may not have liked Yu-Na's leg position, but that particular layback spin of Yu-Na's got a layback 4 due to all its other qualities, and that helped her break the world record in the SP at 2007 Worlds, so clearly it's not the only aspect of the spin that is important or valued.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I listened to Dick Button quite a bit, and I thought his obsession with the free leg was a bit much for a spin that's called the layback spin. But his ranting paid off, to a certain extent. Most American girls have terrific extension of the free leg in their laybacks. Pity though that Dick Button never paid as much attention to the issue of flutzing. I think the US girls would be better off today if he had. *shrug*

#2, 3, 4, 6, 7, etc... at the US Nationals all have true lutz.
flutzing isn't a specific problem within the US with or without Dick Button's ranting.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Japanese ladies flutz just as much if not more. Many of the Russian ladies do too.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Considering the Sochi Olympics I think that the Russian babies have less podium or at least gold medal chances there, if other skaters manage to keep them off podium in WC now. Will be exciting to watch if Caroline, Yu-Na and Mao will manage to accomplish that in London....
 
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venlac

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Another reason I think Mao won't win... regarding her loop and flip, here's her season's history with them -- her flip has been a issue -- she has yet to skate a competition where she lands both 3Fs in the FS.

Japan Open: FS - both 3L clean, 3F clean, 3F underrotated
Cup of China: SP - 3F underrotated, 3L clean; FS - both 3F's underrotated, both 3L's clean
NHK: SP - 3F clean, 3L clean; FS - 2L, 3F, 3L, 2F
GPF: SP - 3F clean, 3L clean; FS - both 3L clean, one 3F clean, one 3F underrotated
Japanese Nationals: SP - 3F clean, 1L ; FS - both 3L clean (though IMO the second one was UR'ed), 3F clean, 2F

her three season chart
10-11
3a 1/8 3lo 7/8 3lz 0/4 3f 6/12 3s 3/4 3t 0/2
11-12
3a 0/4 3lo 7/8 3lz 0/4 3f 10/12 3s 1/4 3t 2/2
12-13
3a 0 3lo 8/9 3lz 0/3 3f 4/9 3s 1/3 3t 1/3(Except japanese national)

chart
 
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jiggs

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
I wish I could appreciate the great love of her the judges have.

It's not only the judges who love her. She is supported and respected by a lot of other people who have been involved in figure skating for a long time (just read Urmanov's, Tarasova's or Orser's comments after her Euros performance - they are just three of many examples). She brings something special to the ice and that combined with her incredible skating skills and jumping technique makes her stand out and successful. She has the ability to make COP programs look special and unique which is very rare nowadays, and that IMO is the main key to her success. A lot of people in the figure skating scene regard her as one of the most interesting and creative skaters ever, and deservedly so.

That being said, Carolina is not an "easy" skater to get. It is not like she is this pretty ice princess who is appealing to everyone at the very first sight. You actually have to look beyond to appreciate some of her amazing qualities. IMO the ladies' field will be missing something once she retires.
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Interesting comments. I agree there is something uniquely "modern" about Carolina's skating. She does not have that typical figure skating build common in years past. She is tall and statuesque and, as such, she's had to develop a different style of skating. The standard ballerina/ice princess look doesn't work for her, due to her physique, and so her movement is more inventive and unique. The unusual/challenging music she's chosen the last few seasons enhances this impression.
 

Bentley

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
I don't see Yuna winning gold at this years Worlds. She has not skated competively for close to 3 years. You lose your edge when you don't practice hard every day as you have to when you compete. That is why so many suffer injuries when they want to compete again, ie Evan and Shasa. The most I see for Yuna is a bronze. Kostner and Asada will battle it out for the gold in my opinion. I really do like Kostner's programs this year as they showcase her style.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I don't see Yuna winning gold at this years Worlds. She has not skated competively for close to 3 years. You lose your edge when you don't practice hard every day as you have to when you compete. That is why so many suffer injuries when they want to compete again, ie Evan and Shasa. The most I see for Yuna is a bronze. Kostner and Asada will battle it out for the gold in my opinion. I really do like Kostner's programs this year as they showcase her style.

You should see some of Yu Na's most recent skates. It's quelled a lot of people's questions about whether she still has it, and oh boy, she still has it - especially considering the field has regressed instead of gotten stronger. The only thing holding Yu Na back is her lack of experience on the international stage this year and her programs/spins lacking her usual finesse. At NRT she was stellar and blew away the field.

As far as Carolina goes, I love her speed, lines, and yes, she is a 'creative' skater. You don't see her usually doing conventional music (save for Bolero this year). I just don't find this year's FS particularly creative for what she's capable of. Her jumping is better after a few years of slumping, but she's still plagued by inconsistency.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
her three season chart
10-11
3a 1/8 3lo 7/8 3lz 0/4 3f 6/12 3s 3/4 3t 0/2
11-12
3a 0/4 3lo 7/8 3lz 0/4 3f 10/12 3s 1/4 3t 2/2
12-13
3a 0 3lo 8/9 3lz 0/3 3f 4/9 3s 1/3 3t 1/3(Except japanese national)

Ouch. Her jumps have regressed to their worst over three seasons and she's actually winning more... that is pretty lame. Forget the lack of triple axel, this skater, internationally, has cleanly landed 14/27 (52%) of her triple jumps and yet she is the GPF gold medalist and has two Grand Prix wins. There's your statistic of the season. Augh. :scratch:
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Ouch. Her jumps have regressed to their worst over three seasons and she's actually winning more... that is pretty lame. Forget the lack of triple axel, this skater, internationally, has cleanly landed 14/27 (52%) of her triple jumps and yet she is the GPF gold medalist and has two Grand Prix wins. There's your statistic of the season. Augh. :scratch:

Who should have won GPF, boo?
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
The question is "Can Kostner Hold Off Russian Babies?"

What do you mean "can she"? She's already just recently done it at europeans when the russian girls were obviously much more superior in jump content. She has done, she is doing it, and she will do it. It is wrong but while Cinquanta is sitting in that president's seat, we might as well just shut our mouths and watch because her pcs will always get her out of her poor jumping content.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
The question is "Can Kostner Hold Off Russian Babies?"

What do you mean "can she"? She's already just recently done it at europeans when the russian girls were obviously much more superior in jump content. She has done, she is doing it, and she will do it. It is wrong but while Cinquanta is sitting in that president's seat, we might as well just shut our mouths and watch because her pcs will always get her out of her poor jumping content.

So true - main thing is that she almost won the FS by doing two double salchows! Imagine if she did them. LOL. She won worlds with her big jump being a triple flip! I mean its so ridiculous what the judges are doing.
 

figureskate

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
I so hope Ottavio Cinquanta retires from being ISU president, just for stopping this ridiculous thing about him helping Kostner. This is a non sense, truly
 
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