Personally, I also think Yuna Kim has to be considered probably the third greatest jumper of all time. Although she never got the triple Axel and doesn't perform the triple loop, the technical perfection and consistency of her triple Lutz/triple toe combination, and her other triples, puts her up there. Many ladies have done the 3Lutz/3toe combo, but none so often or so well as Yuna.
Midori Ito was amazing, a force of nature, and undoubtedly the best ladies jumper of all time. According to Wikipedia, she achieved the following:
--First lady to land triple Axel
--First to land 7 triples in long program
--First to land triple/triple combination
As to Tonya, despite her career ending in such disgrace, she was also a very great jumper. Her triple Axel, when she had it, was the only one in the same class as Midori's.
Some years back, Kristi Yamaguchi commented on Midori and Tonya as jumpers. Kristi said Midori was incredible, but that Tonya's jumps were perhaps even better, just in terms of natural height and flow. Kristi obviously would have been observing their jumps as closely as anyone in those years.
Midori wins over Tonya hands down, though, as she was much more consistent over a longer time frame than Tonya. And Midori never lost her triple Axel, whereas Tonya did.
Personally, I also think Yuna Kim has to be considered probably the third greatest jumper of all time. Although she never got the triple Axel and doesn't perform the triple loop, the technical perfection and consistency of her triple Lutz/triple toe combination, and her other triples, puts her up there. Many ladies have done the 3Lutz/3toe combo, but none so often or so well as Yuna.
I think it's premature to compare Yuna Kim and Gracie Gold. One day, Gracie may be every bit as good as Yuna. There seems no limit to her potential. But she doesn't have the track record of Yuna yet, and that's important. It's one thing to land a perfect triple Lutz/triple toe at Nationals when you are in ninth place; quite another thing entirely to land it at the Olympics when you are in first place and carrying the hopes of a nation.
I"m not sure I'd call Kim a better jumper than Irina. Irina had the full set of jumps and had more combo possiblities. I'm not a huge fan of Irina as a skater but as a jumper I think she was better than Kim.
Top 10 jumpers of all time would be
1. Midori
Wide gap
2. Miki Ando. For having a full set of triples as late as 2010. All jumps are of the best qualities, especially the lutz, loop, salchow, and even toe. For landing a great number of 3x3 in her long careers. She probably landed the most # of 3x3 in the sport.
3. Yuna Kim. For having awesome jumps. Would place above Ando if she has the loop. I personally prefer Miki's lutz to Yuna's.
4. Carolina Kostner. For having a full set of triples, and all of her triples are of highest qualities. Would place her above Miki had she been more consistent. And Caro landed just as many 3x3 as any of the top girls in her long career. Look it up, how many 3toe 3toe she's landed? How many 3flip-3toe she's landed. She probably landed as many 3x3 as Miki's or Mao's or Irina's or even Kim's. Her lutz and flip (despite the long set up) are so pretty. The air position is to die for.
5. Shizuka. Her jumps (except the flip) are of highest qualities. Her lutzes are gorgeous. I think just looking at her lutz, it's only second to Miki's. The flow out of it is amazing. Most girls don't have good flow out of their lutz. Her salchow is great. Her loop is good. And she retained her jumps even into her late 20s. That's a sign of doing it right!
6. Mao Asada. A few of her 3As are so gorgeous, they are fully rotated and so perfectly excecuted, i would give her equal GOE compare to Midori's 3As. Her loop is also nice. She should just take a hit with the flutz, and not bother fixing it for 2 seasons.
7. Irina. For having huge jumps. But she's like all of the Russians, no flow out of the jumps at all. I love the explosiveness of her jumps, it looks like Midori's minus the flow out. And for attempting all of the triples.
8. Gracie. If she lives up to her jumping potential. She would likely overtake Irina in the near future for me. The problem is her landings are too stiff for me. Not a lot of flow, not a lot of gracefulness and effortlessness that someone like Shizuka or Carolina has in their exits.
9. Joannie. Her jumps are nice, but same problem with Gracie, very stiff in the landing.
10. Kristi/Michelle. They are consistent, but their jumps are too small for me.
Elena Radionova for Russia: 3lutz-3toe-3toe
The best jumpers in history:
1) Midori Ito: no doubts, she's still unmatched!
2) Miki Ando, I think: 4S, 3Lz+3Lo, 3F+3Lo, 3T+3T, she had all the most difficult jumps and combos and the consistency of her 3Lz in the late years was amazing
3) Mao Asada: everything she has accomplished puts Mao here, I think: her 3As' consistency has been beautiful, but she has a lot of problems with "e" and UR jumps
4) Tonya Harding: unfortunately, she didn't have consistency, but when she landed her jumps they were superbe!
What do you think?
Top 10 jumpers of all time would be
1. Midori
Wide gap
2. Miki Ando. For having a full set of triples as late as 2010. All jumps are of the best qualities, especially the lutz, loop, salchow, and even toe. For landing a great number of 3x3 in her long careers. She probably landed the most # of 3x3 in the sport.
3. Yuna Kim. For having awesome jumps. Would place above Ando if she has the loop. I personally prefer Miki's lutz to Yuna's.
Writing in 1938, T.D. Richardson (author of Modern Figure Skating and Ice Rink Skating) said "Her Free Skating Programme is by far the most difficult attempted by anyone, man or woman, in the Skating World, but she brings off these staggeringly difficult combinations of jumps and spins with such ease and sureness and at such speed that even experts are sometimes deceived as to the real worth of her programme."
How could we have forgotten Zayak until this page? Thanks for bringing her up and including her. I like your list for the balance of divert reasons for your choices. I like the idea of both Yamaguchi and Biellmann being on there for longevity and consistency. Longevity argues a meticulous training regimen and an effort to maintain a solid technique. Harding is one of those frustrating people (kind of like Christopher Bowman and Nicole Bobek) who had absolutely awesome natural gifts and who mostly threw them away. Someone like Harding is like the anti-Yamaguchi, because she has such talent but is temperamentally unable to commit to the grind that will do justice to her talent. As people have said, (a) genius is two percent inspiration and 98 percent perspiration, and (b) ninety percent of life is just showing up.
Then there are the skaters who were able to put in the sheer hard work needed to hone their stunning natural gifts as jumpers: Ito (a blessing to skating straight from Heaven) and Kim. If we never again in the history of skating see jumping as gorgeous as that done by these two, they will be enough to justify the sport of skating.
I wonder, Pangtongfan, whether you would consider putting Arakawa in your tenth position, or perhaps as an eleventh (a nice prime number, eleven). I always loved her skating, but my eyes were opened to her achievements in jumping by Bartek's tape of her triple-triples. I can't find his video, but here is someone else's video. If you're reading this, Bartek, I hope you link to your video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8XtUYDLKzc
yuna kim's 3-3/2-3 rate of success chart (except 2013 korean national)
3-3 (3f3t or 3lz3t)
junior
7/7(100%)
senior
36/40 (90%)
2a-3t
15/17
[URL="http://cfile22.uf.daum.net/image/2
she only missed 4 3ft3toe & 3lz3toe?
3f3t or 3lz3t
missed in the 2011 sp
missed in the 2010 sp
missed in the 2010 gpf lp
missed in the 2009 skate america lp.
Don't have to go back that far to find 4. I'm sure she missed quite a few more prior to 2009. Kim was consistent with the 3x3, but not THAT consistent, ok?
she only missed 4 3ft3toe & 3lz3toe?
3f3t or 3lz3t
missed in the 2011 sp
missed in the 2010 sp
missed in the 2010 gpf lp
missed in the 2009 skate america lp.
Don't have to go back that far to find 4. I'm sure she missed quite a few more prior to 2009. Kim was consistent with the 3x3, but not THAT consistent, ok?
Carolina is better than Irina?? :disapp::disapp:That would be interesting to count up. Yuna has landed 44 ratified triple-triples in her entire career. How many for Ando?
Carolina is better than Irina?? :disapp::disapp:
Who won the ECH with four triple???Oh no...
1.Ito
2.Irina
3.Ando
4.Kim
Since we're talking jumps, yes, Carolina is better. True lutz, true flip, no weakness in any jumps, great flow out in all jumps. Irina's jumps are big, but too messy on the landing. Irina's lutz is always questionable, most of the time she flutzed.
Irina is a much better competitor and had better consistency, and that are what she had over Carolina.
As inconsistent as Carolina is, she certainly landed many many many more 3x3 than Irina did.